http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...1/TOC01ARCHIVE

oh yeah and...

CHALLENGER (G & S: automobiles and structural parts and engines therefor) was (will be?) published for opposition on 7/25/06.

 

i woudl settle for just about any dodge V8 in a challenger for low 30s.

 

I won't believe any of it until I see them on the lots and I'm sure the price will be scary, especially with the way fuel prices are and the way their pushing for alternative fuels.

 

Regardless of fuel prices.....this is a car that has to be built...and with MDS and a V6 option....I think it will get done....besides which....I dont see them loading up on these....

 

well, like i said on dc.com...this car is going to state the direction in which DCX takes dodge...if they release another ridiculously priced model, its dodges way of saying "were an elite brand, and if you want to go fast, youll pay 10 grand more to go 10% slower".

 

What the heck are you talking about "another ridiculously priced model" nothing Dodge has is that way. The 300C, Charger and Magnum have very low prices for what you get, and the SRT-8 models are way worth the money and in no way 10% slower. I would be so happy if production started in the fall, I could wait a for it and not get a Charger at the first of the year.

 

so theyre going to make the challenger, and alot of pricing models that ive seen place the price of the srt-8 challenger around 40-45 grand, which considering the price of the srt-8 LX cars, isnt an unreasonable guess. now, take that possible 45,000 price tag, with 425 hp...compare that to the GT500, which is 40,930 msrp, and has 500hp. sorry..only 5 grand more, but 15% less powerful..


6.1L challenger-4160lbs -425 horsepower
GT500-3920lbs - 500 horsepower

Keep in mind that the same engine in the Ford GT dynos closer to 550hp..but we will use advertised power for the discussion.

challenger-9.788 lbs per hp
GT500-7.84 lbs pr hp

using that calculation, the challenger is 20% slower...not 15%. and alot of people are projecting that it could cost 45 grand, which is ridiculous.

and what are you comparing the srt-8 sedans to as being so over powering? dodge like to put the charger against the mustang...and youre right..the 40,000 dollar srt-8 is a bit faster than the 30,000 dollar mustang....



how about trucks/SUVs?

the only other "peformance truck or suv" made right now by GM or ford is the trailblazer SS. it weights 4594lbs, and has 400hp with an msrp of around 30 grand. lbs per hp= 11.485

its an auto trans, so for the sake of comparison, we will use the SRT10 quad cab...

srt-10 quad cab...5691 lbs...500 hp..msrp, around 51,000. lbs per hp=11.382

so in this case, the SRT10 is more powerful based on the lbs per hp, and it only costs 42% more...

the fact of the matter is that dodge is building a big lineup of cars that are overpriced in comparison to comparable vehicles. hell, my RT was around 25,000, msrp...they dont build any performance cars for people on "normal budgets". the srt4 was a nice job, but its like dodge thought to themselves, "well, now that we sold a bunch of the fastest car under 21,000, we will go ahead and charge at least 35,000 for anything that will get out of its own way."

they need to build something to enter the pony car/muscle car market. at 82,000, the viper isnt getting it done, especially since its slower than the 70,000 Z06 (another good example of my point). and if they do end up pricing the challenger at 45,000, (which i hope that they wont, but who knows at this point) its not in the same class as the mustang...its in the price class of the corvette, and guess what...with the vette at about 3200lbs and packing 400 horsepower, the challenger is almost 1000lb heavier, and in case your not "in the know" with performance cars, 25hp wont make up that difference. hell, we all know that the 6.1L hemi dyno's over 460, and even at 460hp, the extra 60hp wont make up for a thousand pounds. the C6 base model is around a mid to high 12s car with an M6...assuming a 20% drivetrain loss (which the new LSX cars dont have, but thats what we will use) the C6, with a 200lb driver is around 3400lbs, and with 320 whp can turn in a 12.80 with excellent traction and such. the challenger wit the same assumed loss (to 460, not the advertised 425) with the same 200lb driver would be at 4360lbs, and have around 368 whp...thats only in the 13.20s.

mind you, we all know that the srt8 models are into the high 12s stock, but ive spoken to guys with stock C6s who had run in the mid 12s. i mildly modded S197 GT can run in the high 12s as well, and for a fraction of that 45,000 price. thats my whole point, and really my only complaint with DCX is that they dont build a car to compete with the mustang, and building something that will beat a mustang, but costs 15,000 more doesnt cut it.

the reason that the mustang sells so well is because for the price, its hard to beat, and with 300hp and $26,000, it makes for an excellent performance car to build up... do i expect the 425hp challenger to be priced the SAME as the mustang? no...the mustang is far less powerful. but they need to keep it in the ballpark...you see a ton of mustangs at the track and not a ton of srt-8 chargers at the track for a reason, and its because people who can fork out 40+ for a car arent going to mod it and take it to the track...

 

That is exactly one of the problems I've had with everything coming from DCX, it's high prices and not enough performance for what your paying. They could easily shave weight off of the Challenger and that would help, but they will still cost too much for not enough when you can get more for less money elsewhere. If it were not for the SRT-4's performance and price I would more than likely be in the new Mustang GT. It also doesn't help that DCX try's their best to use any reason they can to void your warranty on a performance vehicle.

 

I completely agree with everything you stated!!!!! BadStratRT also made some HUGE points on DCX...things I have stated myself in numerous arguments with people over the state of DCX. The only thing they have an edge on anymore is in the truck market....

The only reason I bought my R/T is because I wanted a 2 dr coupe that I could fit in, wasnt looking for a Mustang, and wanted something nice looking that wasnt a common sight. Looks like my next car will most likely be one of two things.....a new Camaro (if it gets built) or as much as I hate to think it....possibly a Rustang GT/Cobra....

 

The Mustang is a mid size car and the Challanger is a full size. And from everthing I have read it will be priced the same as the Charger so 30 Grand for an r/t and 35 for an SRT-8.