Coal Train, even though it has that pump on it, all the performance boxes/chips can still starve the injection pump and injectors of lubrication. All 2nd and 3rd gen 24v have that as a problem. The stock pump can only call for some much fuel before it can't keep up with the demand, thats why you need to add like a BD power secondary pump before the injection pump. Dodge even has a warranty bulletin that say if a truck comes in with any modifications that nothing is under warranty and if it isn't under warranty to unhook the box/chip when new parts are installed, unless a secondary pump in installed. That is a tech bulletin that I received about a year ago from Cummins.

 

The problem the 3rd Gen's had was with the pumps that were still mounted on the engine block. That pump was prone to fail due to the engine vibration. Once the pump actually fails, then it becomes a restriction in the line. This causes cavitation in the injection pump and this is actually was destoys the pump. This is why they went to the in-tank pump.

Modules and programmers themselves won't starve the injection pump, but rather they will drop the rail pressure and cause rail pop (cavitation) in the rail.

If you completely removed the lift pump on a CP3 powered truck and ran nothing but a draw straw, the truck would still run fine. The CP3 needs volume not pressure. The VP44 on the other hand cannot draw it's own fuel and REQUIRES 10 - 20 psi of fuel pressure to prevent damage. Lower than 10 psi and it can damage the pump it self, higher than 20 psi and you risk damaging the diaphragm.

As for the modifications and warranty, that's a whole different animal and educating yourself on the actual rules and laws that pertain to that area goes a long way in not getting screwed at the dealership.

Also, to make it very clear, I have a rule about mods.......IF YOU PLAY, YOU PAY! Don't expect to mod the crap out of a truck and then expect stuff to be covered under warranty. That's bad business to me. Those costs get passed onto the next guy trying to buy a truck and it's stuff like that makes the trucks get looked at with a microscope whenever they go in for service. Especially with anything driveline....if you add power, it can effect ANYTHING in the driveline, from intake to wheel bearings, it's all suseptible to damage from increased power output.

Now, whenever a truck goes in for service, you NEED to remove the programming and / or modules so that if they hook up the DRBIII, StarScan or StarMobile, it doesn't interfere with the readings and give false information that would make diagnostics a PITA.

Same thing goes for boost foolers, wategate shorting plugs, rail caps, coolant bypasses, etc.

The other problem is that if leave a tune on your ECM and they flash it, you just lost the tune and you'll have to contact the manufacturer to get a new flash and unlock your tuner.

 

All hail Rich!!!

 

Wow Coaltrain thanks for all the unnecessary information, I was just trying to help this guy out a little so he wouldn't mess his truck up. I work in Dodge dealer and and see trucks come in all the time with problems from programmers and stuff like that. Just because I know all the dumb information about the trucks I don't post it online like an idiot trying to prove a point and trying make it look like you know more about a truck and engine combo then others. Yes adding stuff messes with the LUBERCATION of the injectors by pushing to fuel through them too fast. You add the pump I was talking about to add volume to the injectors not pressure, otherwise after awhile you'll have to replace the injectors from poor LUBERCATION. That is what I was trying to tell this guy. And even though you may not think that the truth is that it happens.

 

Unneccessary information? Like an idiot trying to prove a point? Making it look like I know more about something?.......pump the brakes, Junior.

I hate to tell you, but the lift pump doesn't supply the injectors, the injection pump does. The ONLY thing the lift pump does and is supply the low pressure fuel to the CP3. The CP3, or rather the FCA, determines how much fuel is used for pump lube and how much is used for injection based on the ECM's requests. Remove the lift pump and the CP3 can still draw it's own fuel (i.e. EXACTLY how it's setup on a Duramax......WITH NO LIFT PUMP).

Maybe instead of getting defensive you should dig back into the manual and find the difference between FUEL DELIVERY and FUEL INJECTION. Better yet, instead of SEEING those trucks come in.....BE THE GUY THAT WORKS ON THEM. Not the tech monkey that checks codes, the actual Diesel Tech that does the work while others change oil.

As for "work in a Dodge dealer and see trucks come in all the time"......don't get me started.

Feel free to school me, I'm a noob to all of this.

 

lol...this thread just got awesome. 10/10. i think the best part was when he kept typing "LUBERCATION" as if to make a point.

LUBERCATION = wrong

LUBRICATION = correct

 

As far as the whole dig back to the book, I look at the books almost everyday. And I am the guy that works on the trucks day in and day out not a monkey that helps them. If you know so much about the duramax and the CP3 pump then explain why the Duramax guys put twin CP3 pumps on there trucks. The pump I was talking about does about the samething as the secondary CP3 that would be installed on the trucks. It's just for the Dodge instead. Oh and I don't need to know how to spell to work on trucks.

 

Uh, NO, the pump you were "talking" about is a lift pump, not a second CP3....LIKE I HAVE ON MY TRUCK!

The pump you were TRYING to talk about replaces the LIFT PUMP that supplies the CP3.....or in MY case DUAL CP3's that feed the common rail through DUAL feed lines.

Know what the hell you're talking about BEFORE your open your mouth and try to talk smack to someone who actually does.

Here is what YOU were talking about....A LIFT PUMP (i.e. supplying the CP3, VP44, P7100, etc....)

http://www.dieselperformance.com/ind...duct/index/36P

Or, if you really knew the parts that work, you'd have this (like on my truck)....A FASS.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__ExJM_LnrQ

So then you could feed these......DUAL CP3's (like on my truck).....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgWufkN4NqY&NR

Care to carry on with this.......

Here, lemme break it down a little more for you........NOT LIKE I RUN MY OWN SHOP OR ANYTHING.

www.doghousediesel.com

Now, get out from behind the parts counter at whatever dealership you work at and go ask the REAL diesel tech (if your dealership has one) to confirm what I just told you.

 

your are correct Coaltrain, I was thinking of a different year of injection system and was thinking I was for sure correct on this system, but I made myself looking like an idiot cause of it. Just to get something striaght I don't work behind a counter I'm a ASE Master Cert. Tech and Chrysler Cert. Tech. and am elbow deep in grease and oil everyday. I apologize.

 

Hey guys thanks for the warnings and info, sorry if this caused a little fight out there though...

I just got this truck (2 weeks ago) and have been playing with it some to see what it can do, but from what my butt meter tells me, the truck really has no gain with the banks turned up past level 5 with the way the truck is currently setup. Yeah I get black smoke when it is set on the SL setting, but honestly from my research on this that means I am just dumping more fuel in then needed to make more power. The truck feels faster in level 5 over level 6 and SL. In looking into things it would appear that I need to increase airflow more if I wanted to jump up to the other settings, even banks recommends not using level 6 or SL without at least their high ram intake, and maybe even intercooler. Also while doing my research it looks like I would need (greatly suggested, not really needed) a secondary lift pump/air seperator/filter seup like the FASS or AirDog 150's before turning up the fuel supply via the banks system.

The truck has a airram intake to the stock turbo, stock intercooler and stock tubing running from the turbo to the intercooler then into the engine. Behind the turbo is the stock down pipe through the stock resonator/cat into a 4" (might be 5", but need to measure it) MBRP catback, the only other thing to add power is the banks 6 gun tuner w/Speed Loader and PDA options. The only gauges on the truck are viewed via the PDA on the banks setup.

All that being said I know the PO of the truck had the best of intentions and had good stuff (not necessarily the most powerful) installed on the truck, but I know I have limitations with what he had done. That being said I know I shouldn't just bump the banks up to SL and drive around like that because it's pointless, unless some honda is sitting next to me revving his engine with the windows down, because it feels better at lower settings. For daily driving I have been leaving it down in the level 3 area, and I have yet to try pulling the trailer with the truck so not sure what setting is the best witht he additional load, but I doubt it would be one of the higher settings. When I get some more money to start upgrading things then I will be looking into items that will help my current setup to be the most effective, without causing damage, as I am not trying to make anything more than a daily driver (not really driven every day, but my main for of transport when I go out) and toy hauler that pulls ~10K# one to two times a month...