Hi guys, I have a friend here at work that has some bad luck in the past 2 yrs with Ford and Chevy. The first was a 1996 F250 with a major Transmission problem (as in multiple rebuilds), the second was a 2003 F350 with the 6.0 powerstroke, and that truck had something like 6 turbo's replaced for a boost issue, among other things. Recently this past weekend, the Allison trans in his 2003 2500 HD chevy (duramax) just blew up. He has had this one for a couple of months, and has been in the shop for trans, and engine boost issues. I'm trying to talk him into a Dodge, but I'd hate for him to get a dodge, then have something go wrong.... I'd look like dumbass. Anything out there that he should specifically look for? I'm trying to talk him into a new one, but I doubt he wants to spend that kind of money. Thanks for any input.

 

Tell him if it wasn't for Ford and Chevy drivers there wouldn't hardly beanything left forCTD's to pass on the roads. Also if he switched over to a CTD he would look much cooler driving down the road and have the power to drive in theleft hand lane.Hate to admit it but My names Pat and Im a X-Ford guy. There I said and I feel better already.

 

I recently purchased a 2005 Ram 3500, 4x4 Laramie. I read alot about the Ford and Chev and I also talked to everyone and anyone that towed anything. I soon learned that the dodge pulled the same if not more than the competors and did it more effieciently/economically/reliably. I also have driven highway trucks and the cummins engine has been proven over the years.
One thing to check is ensure that the ball joints are not worn out, but Ford and Chev also have ball joint issues. PS do not take the dealers word for it that all the routine maintenance has been done, demand some written proof. I was told that all the routine maintenance had been done only to find that the oil change sticker date/milage did not jive and upon further digging I found out nothing had been done. I changed all the fluids throughout the truck as a result. You may want to compare mileage to the engine run hour meter, this will tell you if the truck has idled for extensive periods of time. The engine hour meter is obtained by turning the key on but not turning the truck over, then push the trip-ometer reset. Both my wife and I feel that this truck was a good choice after looking at the Ford and Chev. Hope that this helps if you have anymore question I would be happy to help with anything that I can.

 

Buckwheat,

That has GOT to be the funniest avatar I have ever seen!

I used to have a Ford SD V10 and the PSD guys thought that thing was god's gift to engines. Until you pulled into a dealership and saw a line of PSD's in th service lane.

 

if he's looking for a used one, then make sure he gets the 555, 600 or 610 motor, they are a better foundation for building on I think... plus they are mated with the 48re trans (auto) which is better built than the 47re (found in the '03 non HO setups & older 2nd gen trucks)

 

Yeah!, What he said!!

 

Hi Pat!

[sm=partyparty.gif]

 

Another X Ford guy here. I drove Fords for 20 years until the 6.0 POS I bought. The last conversation between me and Ford went something like this (after being out of service 5 months this year, getting it back from a 27 day visit to the shop and 3 days later it wouldn't start). "I want this POS truck hauled out of my dang driveway and bought back before I get mad enought to push it thought the front of your dealership." Their reply was, "We don't need people like you driving our trucks." It took me a week and a half to get it running again, and 2 weeks later, guess what I ain't driving anymore.

Anyhow, here's my opinion on Dodge so far and a little comparison.

Dodge's 2500 rides a heck of a lot better than a F250. An F250 will flog the crap out of you going down the road, My Dodge doesn't do that yet the suspension is stiff like a truck ought to be. Chevy's have a soft ride but also have a soft suspension that's not as capabale towing wise.

One of the reasons the Dodge rides good is it comes with a first rate tire. Mine has Michellin LTX's on it. My Ford came with Generals on it. As bad as General is, the tire Ford uses isn't even a standard tire, it's a made for Ford piece of junk. They would not stay balanced one day to the next. Ford does that with all their tires. The BF Goodriches that come on some of them are a lesser made tire than what Goodrich sells at tire shops. A $40,000 truck should come with top quality tires. Dodge met that expectation, Ford never did at least since they quit using Firestone.

Power: The difference between the Cummins and Powerstroke 6.0 is night and day. The 6.0 is a highway engine. Below 60 mph a 6.0 can not deliver horsepower or torque to do what's expected of a diesel. That said above 60 mph once you get it wound above 2200 rpms it'll go. A 6.0 will tow a pretty heavy load 90 mph all day long if you can get it rolling from a stop. You might need to aim the F250 down a hill with the trailer behind it to get it started rolling. Pulling out from a stop empty or loaded with a 6.0 is a chore or exercise in flustration, I don't know which. Ford had this insane delay built into their electronic fuel pedal that delayed engine acceleration from when you pushed the go pedal down. You could let the clutch out and stomp it to the floor and it'd sit there until it decided to go or stalled one.

The Cummins is perfectly happy from 1000 rpms to 2000 rpms and dang strong around 1500. I can pull out in 3rd from a dead stop easily and when you mash the go pedal, it goes. Ford rates the Torque on the 6.0 at about 2400 rpms. Their engineer that worked on my truck thought I was an idiot when I said I don't know why anyone would be concerned about torque at 2400 rpms, but it's definitely missed when it's not there at 1000 rpms. Cummins doesn't have that problem. Cummins will pull the house down and if it can help pulling the Ford to a rolling start, the Ford will probably out run the Cummins pulling the house on the highway.

The Cummins out milages the Powerstroke easily. It always has. My Dodge gets 22 to 21 mpg around town and on country roads. On the interstate it gets about 17.5. It'll get 18 if you keep it under 70. My Ford got about 14 around town and in the country sometimes less and about 16.5 on the highway if I didn't drive it real hard. This is one sort of gripe I have with the Dodge, but it's on the minor side. I wanted a 3:73 axle on mine. When I test drove it, I could tell it was lower geared than the Ford even though I didn't get it in a place where I could get above 60 but I figured since I was in 6th gear at 45 mph it was likely a 4:10. The dealer looked it up in some paperwork and assured me it was a 3:73, if that is the case, the tranny is geared a lot lower than Ford's tranny. The 6.0 turns about 2500 rpms at 80 mph, my Dodge turns that at just above 70. The difference between the 6.0 and Cummins is the 6.0 is just beginning to run at 2500 and the Cummins is wound pretty tight. It's power and fuel efficient range appears to be between 1500 and 2000 rpms where a Powerstroke's power band and efficiency band is about 2500 rpms. Dodge's 6th gear needs to be significantly higher than it is. I would guess if you could keep the engine below 2000 at 70 mph it might get 23 to 24 mpg on the highway. The Dodge would be a good candidate for a 2 speed rear axle. I still have no idea what axle my truck has in it. Can't find it documented anywhere. Ford puts that right on the sticker so you know. BTW: With a 6.0, if I had it to do over, I'd gotten a 4:10 axle. My older 7.3 truck had a 3:73 and it was perfect, I assumed wrong it would be on a 6.0.

Maintenance:

There's no question, the Cummins will be easier serviced than the 6.0 and for sure easier than Ford's new 6.4. Ford, I assume, designed the 6.0 with the idea of forcing people to bring them to the dealership for any sort of work beyond an oil change. My 7.3, which still runs like a sewing machine, is 13 years old. That I know of, it's never been in a dealership shop. There's been very little go wrong with it and nothing I couldn't handle myself or could take to a regular mechanic and get it fixed. The 6.0 is a whole other animal. That engine is hid underneath the cowling. The hood is just a suggestion. To work on a 6.0, the proceedure is to remove the cab. From what I understand, the 6.4 was designed to make cab removal easier so the engine could be worked on. Simple stuff like an air filter on a 6.0 is a royal pain to change. Where my old 7.3 took 1 hand about 5 minutes to change, you'd be lucky to change a 6.0 filter in under 30 minutes. Fuel water drains on the 7.3 were simple to operate, on the 6.0 a pain in the tail and fuel on you. The Cummins water drain is more akin to the 7.3 with a yellow lever on the side of the filter and a nice tube that drains it down to a pan if you so choose. The Cummins air filter looks simple enough to change, a few flip off clips and you've got it. I have to give International a + on the oil filter on the 6.0. Although I never did figure out why a paper cartridge oil filter is $10 more expensive than a metal housinged spin on filter, it was pretty convenient. Fuel filters on the 6.0 are a pain. Some dumb dumb engineered one of them turned sideways so when you take the cap off to pull the cartridge out about a quart of fuel falls on you. There are 2 fuel filters on a 6.0. Why? Who knows? Cummin's fuel filter seems like it'll be easy enough to get to with a ratchet and shouldn't spill all over the place.

God forbid on a 6.0 you have to put glow plugs in it or change an injector. A job like that doesn't seem like it would be overly complicated with a Cummins. One of the serious flaws of the 6.0's and one of the Chief reasons Ford will probably file bankruptcy in the very near future is the serious miscalculation of their decision to design that engine to only be serviced by dealers. When you start talking about someone having to pay 8 and 10 hours labor to remove stuff so you can get to the engine to begin working on it, then another 8 to 10 hours to put all that stuff back it is beyond what their customers and Ford itself is willing to pay. Talk about a train wreck, if you are around people who own 6.0's, the dealerships that work on them, and on the phone to Ford on a daily basis for 10 months trying to figure out who's going to pay for the repair. Most of the 6.0's are still under warranty. Ford does not want to pay for repair under warranty under any circumstances and will tell you whatever it takes to get you out of their face. It beats anything I've ever seen, they will pay for 15 hours of labor to remove enough stuff to dig a $1000 part out of a truck (like a turbo), keep your truck out of service for 2, 3, 4, or more weeks while they figure out if they are going to clean your turbo and put it back on or replace it with a new one or what. They force their mechanics to write a college level thesis on the cost of cleaning the existing turbo or replacing with new. If Ford can save 50 cents cleaning it, they'll clean it. The idea on Ford's part is to limp the 6.0's out of warranty as fast as possible and stick the customers with the mess they made. On the other side, the customers are for the most part trying to figure out how to get rid of their 6.0 before the warranty runs out. I don't know of anyone that wants an out of warranty 6.0. Mine for instance started having problems when the EGR valve went south. The result was the engine being filled with soot. If you looked down into the air intake where the EGR valve came from, it looked like someone had dumped a crushed 20 lb bag of Kingsford charcoal into the engine. Ford cleaned my valve twice and replaced it 5 times. They even replaced it twice within 15 days. They would not however entertain the idea of pulling the intake off the engine and cleaning the soot out of it so the new EGR valve wouldn't fail in short order.

Fit and trim

Dodge's cab is as nice as Ford's maybe a tad better. I'm glad to not have those goofy sucided doors for the Supercab and have a regular door that I don't have to open 2 inorder to open 1 to get my younguns in the back seat. The under rear seat storage is nice. The double center console storage is nice. I didn't get the 6 disk Dodge changer radio, had one in the Ford. I sort of wish the single cd Dodge would read MP3's, but it doesn't. I have no idea if Ford's newer ones do and Dodge's 6 cd changer does.

As far as buttons, I have most of the ones on the Dodge that I had on Ford. The dodge has an electric rear sliding window. That's nice, didn't have that on the Ford. 6 way seat driver's seat I had on both the Ford and Dodge. One bit of aggrivation with the Dodge is the headlights don't have an automatic setting. I've already left them on at work once. Maybe there's a way to fix that, I don't know yet. The cupholder thing in the floor of the Dodge is sort of a poor design, especially with a manual shift. #1 and #2 cup holes can't accommodate a Mt Dew bottle without getting hit by the shifter, especially the taller 20 oz jobs.

Exterior trim, the Dodge lags the Ford a hair. Things like bed rail caps, tailgate top cap, Running boards didn't come with the Dodge. I've never seen a SuperDuty without running boards and I thought tailgate caps were standard with Ford as well. That said, I spent about $1500 and came away with running boards, a spray in liner over the rails and a folding tonneau cover. The dealer wanted something like $1500 just for the running boards. Most Fords also have fender flairs on them that keep rocks down pretty well. I can't believe how expensive those are after market. The running boards cut down on the rocks quite a bit.

Overall, I wouldn't trade my Dodge for 2 PowerJokes.

Skip

 

WHEEEEEEWHH!! they killed it with the 6.0 , Enjoy that DODGE and hang about 16,000 lbs behind it and see how you like it. Or better yet, save your truck and ride in mine grossing 26,000. I set my cruise on 70 and it holds it all the way, hills or not.Your gonna love it.

 

Hey Skip,

Remember this truck?