very small holes/lines in the braking system cannot be gravity bled...

two person job without the correct bleeding tool... even a tiny amount of air in the system will give you spongy brakes because as you know AIR is compressible, fluid is NOT... a dry system as you have described will take some amount of time and effort with two people and the engine running, one pumping the brakes and one at the bleed screw to get ALL OF THE AIR out of the entire system.... it takes a lot of fluid to pass through the system to the rear brakes before you absolutely know you have all of the air bubbles out... as I said before start with 2 qts of brake fluid...

 

Rsdata,

If it were a Refrigeration unit that had a leak, I would say that it's impossible to get a 20 degree Temp drop across the Evaporator coil cuz' all of the Freon drained out through a hole, & that once the "hole" was repaired, with new filters, the unit purged, pumped down & then recharged to the proper Superheat/ Sub-cooling Specs, etc.,etc.

But, to get Freon in to a Refrigeration system, after the repair, ...It will "migrate" from the Evaporator to the Condenser/ Compressor, & the bulk of the time it "force" air, in to the Condenser shell, the bulk of the time, which cause problems. My point is, either the "restrictor", or the TX-valve has extremely small openings some as small as a human hair, that do allow the Gas to migrate through.
Perhaps looking at the Brake system in the same way as a Refrigeration system is completely wrong, & perhaps that is also why I am not an Auto Mechanic, Eh?

Anyway, GOD Almighty has answered Prayers, for, ... I put the wheels on the Van, & lowered it to the ground, in order to move it out of the mud, that I have created, & when I started the Van, the ABS & Brake light went out. SMH :>)

I then ran the Van back & forth down the Driveway, & jammed on the brakes.

HallluYah!!! It stops, & the lights are not coming on.

But, my pedal is "Soft", & not as firm as I would like for it to be.

And, My Emergency Brake does not work. So, Tomorrow Morning, I'm back out there Trying to figure all of this out, But at least there is a "Light now showing in th' Darkness".

What do you think Rs?

 

iodj44,

My Apologies, "If" I have offended you. I have no "Problem" with you making comments. I also realize that my situation is "Unique", & that many who have a more "Normal Life" are accustomed to being able to do, & have many things when ever they wish. That is not my situation.

Again, I Apologize to you, "if" I have Offended You.

 

unfortunately when you work with liquids, viscous ones at that, air pockets get trapped... even gas lines in summer used to get vapor locked... air where fuel should be and would not run until purged...

if you drain an entire brake line front to back you will find a larger amount of liquid then you would think... as you bleed the brake line the air bubble will move but not as fast as the liquid moves... therefore you will have to pump more fluid through the line then you would think...

even with spongy brakes, you are probably good to go for awhile... just when the weather turns warmer and time is not as important then bleed the brakes again... and don't forget those front rubber hoses... OLD hoses will prematurely burn up your brake pads, wear out your rotors, and steal MPG

many many youtube videos on bleeding the brakes.... but you have now been thru elementary school on brakes... just need some more "hands-on" to get certified!

glad at least you are moving on with work...

 

Greetings Alloro! First off, I want to Thank You for Your help, when I had all of the Major Problems with how my Van was running several months ago. It did turn out to be the Rear Bank O2 Sensor, & a very weak Battery, both of which I replaced. Then shortly after that repair, I started developing Major Brake Problems, & all of them happened as I was installing a Furnace for a Customer. SMH I put my wheels back on my Van, in order to get it out of the mud, & in to a cleaner area where I could work, & when I started the Van, ... The ABS & Brake light did not show up. HalleluYah! Instead of just moving the Van, I then ran it up & down our driveway (Approx. 248 ft.), as fast as I could go, & then JAMMED on the brakes. Still no ABS, nor Brake Light, but,.... The brake pedal is somewhat "Soft", & not "Firm" as I would expect it to be. Can there be "Air" in the system without it activating the ABS & Brake Light? Here in a couple of hours, I'll be going back out, & continue working on the Van, & I'll also look for that button on the "Proportioning Valve", speaking of which, .... The Dodge Engineers should be "Flogged" for putting the "Valves" down under the battery in such a way that one has to practically "Stand on their head" to reach them. SMH Again, Thank You Alloro!

 

------------------- Rsdata, Indeed, I understand the "liquids", "viscosity", etc., for that is vastly critical in my work. I also remember years ago, where a gas line on my 67 Chevelle , would vapor lock & all the problems that caused. Actually back then, I could "afford" to pull my hair out, while trying to figure out th' problem. LOL! From what I'm gathering herein the group, a Scanner is not absolutely required to get the "Valve motors" to move in such a manner as to force any air through them, so that is a relief, for the only two shops that are "Reputable" are swamped with work, & on top of that, the Towing Bill would be another $75.00 out of our pocket. "If", I'm understanding correctly, .... I can pump my Brakes, as I bleed them in to my bottle with Brake Fluid in it, to "Firm" them up? And Yes, those hoses will be replaced. "Certified &, Elementary School"? LOL! Rs, .... I have Day Dreams of 12 1/8" drums, One ton retainer pins, One Ton Wheel cylinders, shoe hold down springs, & Wheel adjusters, LOL!

 

Remove the access panel under the headlight.
http://car-pictures.cars.com/images/...jpg&HEIGHT=600

Since your parking brake isn't working and your pedal is soft, it could mean your rear brakes aren't fully adjusted. I would check that possibility before doing any more bleeding.

 

Alloro,

"if" the Brakes aren't properly adjusted out via the "Adjuster", then that would create "Slack" in the Emergency Brake, as well as a "Soft Pedal"?

So the "Adjusters" actually increase pedal pressure?

And thank you for the tip on easier access to the Valves Sir!

 

If the brakes aren't adjusted to where they should be, then extra pedal travel (brake and e-brake) is required before contact is made with the drums. This could leave the brake pedal going almost to the floor before any braking is felt. This can also allow the e-brake pedal to go all the way down without applying sufficient pressure to the drums to hold the vehicle from moving.

 

Thank You Alloro! Is there a guide / Specification available on the Internet, or in this group regarding the proper adjustment?