3.9 update
#21
12-07-2019 | 09:20 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,441
Likes: 599
From: S.W. Indiana
My Subaru has some piston slap at subfreezing temperatures but goes away after a few minutes. This sounds like something internally resonating throughout the entire engine. I pulled the doghouse and reved it up and it sounds like the noise is either from the valve covers or kegger manifold.
The engine doesn't smoke or seems to be using any oil otherwise so I don't think be it's a broken ring. It actually runs OK.
It is hard to guage it's performance wheather it's running at it's maximum power. Wheather it's because it's a V6 or it's something else.
The jury is still out on wheather this engine actually blew a head gasket to begin and with the rattle is due to that or the guy made up this story to cover up the engine's real problem.
Problem is it seems in order to find this problem might require tearing into it. So maybe just swapping engines would be cheaper.
I have noticed its doing this popping and cracking thing 30 minutes to an hour after a hot start again. Plugging off the EVAP port apparently was not the problem. This makes me wonder if this condition is timing related as well as the advance being all over the place at idle using my ELM tool.
I watched Eric the car guy's video on timing chain slack. This test sounds easy enough.
Unfortunately this is going to require two people and I don't have any help. My 8 year old daughter probably wouldn't know what to look for and my wife is sick and
my father is always willing to help but he's 75 years old and it's hard for him to get on the floor of the van to see the distributor while I rotate the engine.
Anymore now it's all I can do to make straight forward repairs let alone spinning my wheels troubleshooting something for hours on end.
The engine doesn't smoke or seems to be using any oil otherwise so I don't think be it's a broken ring. It actually runs OK.
It is hard to guage it's performance wheather it's running at it's maximum power. Wheather it's because it's a V6 or it's something else.
The jury is still out on wheather this engine actually blew a head gasket to begin and with the rattle is due to that or the guy made up this story to cover up the engine's real problem.
Problem is it seems in order to find this problem might require tearing into it. So maybe just swapping engines would be cheaper.
I have noticed its doing this popping and cracking thing 30 minutes to an hour after a hot start again. Plugging off the EVAP port apparently was not the problem. This makes me wonder if this condition is timing related as well as the advance being all over the place at idle using my ELM tool.
I watched Eric the car guy's video on timing chain slack. This test sounds easy enough.
Unfortunately this is going to require two people and I don't have any help. My 8 year old daughter probably wouldn't know what to look for and my wife is sick and
my father is always willing to help but he's 75 years old and it's hard for him to get on the floor of the van to see the distributor while I rotate the engine.
Anymore now it's all I can do to make straight forward repairs let alone spinning my wheels troubleshooting something for hours on end.
I don't think it's a timing chain but it could be. Timing chain rattle is a sort of shika-shika-shika noise as the engine runs. You can use a long wooden dowel rod to listen. Just be sure to put your knuckle on the end and use that to close the cartilage flap on your ear. Alas, I'm several hundred miles from you so I can't listen in person. It sounds more like a reciprocating issue rather than a rotational mass problem.
Last edited by ol' grouch; 12-07-2019 at 09:21 AM. Reason: i kant spel wurth a durn.
#22
12-07-2019 | 07:25 PM
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 82,718
Likes: 3,425
From: Clayton MI
That's not piston slap, noise is wrong for that. Sounds more like a bolt head hitting something that doesn't move. Have you checked the bolts for the torque converter? Think I would also be checking the various heat shields on the engine.
would be interesting to see what frequency the noise is vs. engine rpm, but, that would require some kinda specialized equipment, that I am willing to wager you don't have.
For the timing chain slack test, your granddaughter can indeed help you with that. Just have her watch the rotor, and tell you when it starts moving. I've had my granddaughter out in the garage with me on more than one occasion..... She thinks its a blast.
would be interesting to see what frequency the noise is vs. engine rpm, but, that would require some kinda specialized equipment, that I am willing to wager you don't have.
For the timing chain slack test, your granddaughter can indeed help you with that. Just have her watch the rotor, and tell you when it starts moving.
I've had my granddaughter out in the garage with me on more than one occasion..... She thinks its a blast.
#23
12-07-2019 | 09:30 PM
Professional
Joined: Jun 2017
Posts: 196
Likes: 3
From: Eastern, NC
That's not piston slap, noise is wrong for that. Sounds more like a bolt head hitting something that doesn't move. Have you checked the bolts for the torque converter? Think I would also be checking the various heat shields on the engine.
would be interesting to see what frequency the noise is vs. engine rpm, but, that would require some kinda specialized equipment, that I am willing to wager you don't have.
For the timing chain slack test, your granddaughter can indeed help you with that. Just have her watch the rotor, and tell you when it starts moving. I've had my granddaughter out in the garage with me on more than one occasion..... She thinks its a blast.
would be interesting to see what frequency the noise is vs. engine rpm, but, that would require some kinda specialized equipment, that I am willing to wager you don't have.
For the timing chain slack test, your granddaughter can indeed help you with that. Just have her watch the rotor, and tell you when it starts moving.
I've had my granddaughter out in the garage with me on more than one occasion..... She thinks its a blast. https://apps.apple.com/us/app/audio-...a/id1281873790
#24
12-08-2019 | 02:43 AM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,441
Likes: 599
From: S.W. Indiana
That's not piston slap, noise is wrong for that. Sounds more like a bolt head hitting something that doesn't move. Have you checked the bolts for the torque converter? Think I would also be checking the various heat shields on the engine.
would be interesting to see what frequency the noise is vs. engine rpm, but, that would require some kinda specialized equipment, that I am willing to wager you don't have.
For the timing chain slack test, your granddaughter can indeed help you with that. Just have her watch the rotor, and tell you when it starts moving. I've had my granddaughter out in the garage with me on more than one occasion..... She thinks its a blast.
would be interesting to see what frequency the noise is vs. engine rpm, but, that would require some kinda specialized equipment, that I am willing to wager you don't have.
For the timing chain slack test, your granddaughter can indeed help you with that. Just have her watch the rotor, and tell you when it starts moving.
I've had my granddaughter out in the garage with me on more than one occasion..... She thinks its a blast. So start the kids early, you never know what they'll accomplish later.
#27
12-12-2019 | 07:48 AM
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Rookie
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 88
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So he's going to put this used Dakota engine in it.
It maybe awhile before I get it back.
#28
12-12-2019 | 03:44 PM
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Joined: May 2019
Posts: 4,441
Likes: 599
From: S.W. Indiana
So this shop listened to the motor and the guy says it's a rod knocking. Probably because the idiot I bought it from kept driving it hot without coolant until the headgasket blew. He says he thinks that's what's caused the oil pump to go bad as well.
So he's going to put this used Dakota engine in it.
It maybe awhile before I get it back.
So he's going to put this used Dakota engine in it.
It maybe awhile before I get it back.
Depending on how many miles on the Dakota engine, I'd replace the timing chain, expansion plugs and replace the oil pump with a high volume unit before installation., Then again, I do my own work. A rod knocking would make a sound like that. Reciprocating mass noise fits it to a T.
#29
12-12-2019 | 08:27 PM
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 378
Likes: 32
So this shop listened to the motor and the guy says it's a rod knocking. Probably because the idiot I bought it from kept driving it hot without coolant until the headgasket blew. He says he thinks that's what's caused the oil pump to go bad as well.
So he's going to put this used Dakota engine in it.
It maybe awhile before I get it back.
So he's going to put this used Dakota engine in it.
It maybe awhile before I get it back.
too bad the motor is toast, but, if whoever ran it at 230+ coolant temps, imagine how hot the oil as General oil becomes ineffective at only 250+ degrees. Synthetics can do 300+ but they will still can have issues at 250 too.
Like ol'grouch said, if you are going to have the motor out, if you have the $$$ do the chain while it is out and easy to do. Just a suggestion, with a Cloyles timing chain set you can advance the timing if you want a little more power. When I had my 3.9 out (I went through the whole thing when I first got it because I had a lot of issues too) I advanced the timing 2 degrees and also changed out the heads. I got 100k trouble free miles. The only reason I swapped in a V8 was that here in PA, that poor motor could barely keep me at 35 on 10% grades (my van is 6000+lbs with 4 people in it)...and there are a lot of them around here
#30
12-17-2019 | 10:06 AM
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Rookie
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 88
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Im glad you are getting it fixed too bad the motor is toast, but, if whoever ran it at 230+ coolant temps, imagine how hot the oil as
General oil becomes ineffective at only 250+ degrees. Synthetics can do 300+ but they will still can have issues at 250 too.
Like ol'grouch said, if you are going to have the motor out, if you have the $$$ do the chain while it is out and easy to do. Just a suggestion, with a Cloyles timing chain set you can advance the timing if you want a little more power. When I had my 3.9 out (I went through the whole thing when I first got it because I had a lot of issues too) I advanced the timing 2 degrees and also changed out the heads. I got 100k trouble free miles. The only reason I swapped in a V8 was that here in PA, that poor motor could barely keep me at 35 on 10% grades (my van is 6000+lbs with 4 people in it)...and there are a lot of them around here
too bad the motor is toast, but, if whoever ran it at 230+ coolant temps, imagine how hot the oil as General oil becomes ineffective at only 250+ degrees. Synthetics can do 300+ but they will still can have issues at 250 too.
Like ol'grouch said, if you are going to have the motor out, if you have the $$$ do the chain while it is out and easy to do. Just a suggestion, with a Cloyles timing chain set you can advance the timing if you want a little more power. When I had my 3.9 out (I went through the whole thing when I first got it because I had a lot of issues too) I advanced the timing 2 degrees and also changed out the heads. I got 100k trouble free miles. The only reason I swapped in a V8 was that here in PA, that poor motor could barely keep me at 35 on 10% grades (my van is 6000+lbs with 4 people in it)...and there are a lot of them around here
I own 2 cars that don't make 30 BHP and the struggle going up hills maxxing out at 35 mph.
The Dodge doesn't do too bad going up this same hill.