I can respect your opinion, but the Titan I looked at was a 2006 extended cab 4wd. Had 110 miles on it. The door handles didn't fall off, but they did wobble. I've surfed some Titan websites, and I have heard problems with the handles. More so, they are talking about them freezing shut in Northern climates. Now, I HIGHLY doubt the pillar handles are that weak on most Titans, but its the FIRST time I ever witnessed something like that on a new truck on a dealers lot.

Secondly, I've never seen one reputable source that shows a Titan dyno 20 hp more than a Hemi. Not one. I've seen consistent numbers showing Hemi's in the 265-275 rwhp range, and Titans in the 240-250 range. Which can only mean one of two things . . . the Endurance V8 has more than 305 hp, or the Titan loses less through the drivetrain. I'd put my money they underrate the hp.

Now, I never claimed the Titan was slow, but it felt more "car like" in acceleration. Its fast, but its not a "lets stop building trucks and go buy a Titan fast." I've just read about too many problems with the Titans - the rotors warping, getting new brakes every 3,000 miles, rear end failures, bottoming out going over speed bumps, rattles in the dash, the spray in bed liner peeling off, etc. I heard all this, not from Dodge owners, but on Titantalk.com - from Titan owners themselves. Is it a fast truck? Yes. Would I have confidence it could consistently tow for 60,000 or 70,000 miles? No. Did I think the interior belonged in a $30,000-$35,000 truck? No - too cheap, belonged more in a Frontier. Would I rate it the worst truck on the market? No, it definitely has performance, but in year 3 of production, I'm still waiting for it do something besides have catchy commercials.

 

You read my post wrong. I didn't say they took the 3.5 V6 from the Z and put it in the Titan. I said they used the Z's transmission as a platform for the Titan's transmission.

 

The current GM 6.0 makes 202 HP and 240 TQ at the rear wheels.
The Hemi's in the 1500 are running about 260 HP, 280TQ, less in other platforms like the Jeep GC, Durango, etc. Titans/Armadas have about 256 HP, 301 TQ at the rear wheels. Remember, this is RWHP so it is what you are actually using. The makers rate flywheel HP, which doesn't take the losses in the transmission and drivetrain into account. Similar HP but more torque, and torque wins on race day.

This site has dynos for the Dodge and GM.
http://www.ststurbo.com/
This site has the stock and supercharged Titan side by side. They would want stock to be as low as possible to show the largest gains. They have the RWHP at 280 and RWTQ at 330. There are similar numbers found on most sites.
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...no-graphs.html

As to the trans, its the best of class like the motor. Smooth as silk and able to take huge increases.

Just the facts. Don't kill the messenger.

 

Where do I start in replying to this post? hahaha.

#1, I would never quote any torque listings on an enthusiast website, the way you quoted Titantalk dyno results. If you are going to quote them, be prepared for wearing boots because you'll be stepping deep in the BS.

#2, read farther up the thread, I have links to several sites with other dyno tests showing different results that what you quoted. If you think, for one second, the Dodge is losing 100 lbs of torque through the drivetrain, you are dreaming. As you said, torque wins on race day, so your "supposedly" 21 lbs torque advantage should SMOKE a Hemi. But it doesnt. Again, look farther up the thread and you'll see 0-60 times within .1 seconds of each other, and 1/4 mile times even. So, please, tell me, how you could have a 21 lb torque advantage and shorter gears and be even with a Ram in 1/4 mile times??? Or I can answer it for you . . . there isn't a 21 lb advantage

#3, it is too early to tell if the Titan engine and transmission are the best . . . the truck has only been out for 3 years. Let's see some Titan's on a jobsite for 5 years, towing, hauling, starting in cold weather, with over 100,000 miles, and then get back to me on world class drivetrains.

#4, I'm not killing the messenger, just the product. I'm just curious why you, a proud Titan owner, is trolling a Dodge site? I do not think you are a bad person or consumer, I just think you jumped the bandwagon a little too early. Nissan read the American consumer well. They know people want bragging rights, they want the best. So, they geared their truck towards a specific segment. However, when Nissan still cannot meet its ORIGINAL sales goal for year 1, that tells me something. When it cannot outsell a Chevy Colorado or Dakota, that tells me something. Nissan did a good job with a first time full size truck. But they need to do a LOT more to gain any market share in the truck segment. #1, they need to take out Toyota, because even though a Tundra has less performance, it mops the floor with the Titan sales wise. #2, they need to give more options - regular cab, different engines, etc. #3, they need to improve quality. Most people, well, all Titan owners, have only had the vehicle AT MOST 3 years. Your interior, panels, trim, etc, shouldn't fall off in 3 years. But I cannot wait to see a 2004 Titan in 2009. That'll be a sight.

 

I posted torque numbers from a manufacturer, not an enthusiast site. Those are the Stillen Dyno charts you can find on Stillen.com

I don't think Dodge is loosing 100tq, I think they are overstating dramatically what they make. Ex: I owned a Grand Cherokee. When the Hemi came out in the WK, they said it had 325 hp. When it was tested, I came up short, and slower than the WJ 4.7 HO and 5.9 ZJ that it replaced. If it had 325, it would have destroyed both. 21lbs is not a smoke amount of power. It would equate to a couple of tenths. If you were a racer, you'd know this.

You can't downgrade a motor or tranny with zero problems since introduction because its only 3 years old. The Hemis have had tranny problems and their internals grenade themselves if you break 400hp at the rear wheels. The Titan motors have made over 700hp with stock crank, etc.

I own an Armada. I'm "trolling" the dodge site because on the Nissan sites, we do an objective comparison. As I said, I own cars of all brands. I have no loyalty in either direction. There are legitimate gripes about any vehicle. But its pretty petty to try to pat yourself on the back by unjustly slamming another vehicle. If you want to be objective, then do it. I don't observe Titan guys slamming Hemis on the Titan site, and if they did, I'd expect one of you to defend them. I can see by your 30 posts you're a big deal over here. Mostly, I would think that most Dodge guys have the class to be objective and not unfairly and inaccurately report on other trucks.

Bottomline, I think the Titan has the best powerplant, the Ford the best interior. The Dodge has a good blend of both, but the reliability, the experiences with the hemi in the durango and Grand Cherokee, and slight edge in performance tipped the scales for me. I may have to reassess if Dodge ever decides to build a real SUV instead of a midsize like the Durango. I do have to give major kudos to the SRT-10 though. And don't forget, Titan will have the V8 Cummins Diesel by '08, possibly '07.

 

V8 Cummins diesel in 07 0r 08???? Read the statement by Nissan's product manager about seeing how the Titan sells before they introduce a diesel version. If they haven't met their sales goal yet, I wouldn't hold my breath for that. Plus, Cummins isn't going to offer their engines to two competitors in the same truck segment. Thats like saying Pepsi and Coke are going to team up for a cooperative drink.

Where is the WK? Did you mean UK? I'm just curious where you are from.

There is nothing wrong with "thinking" the Titan/Armada have the best drivetrain. You can "think" anything you want. But proving it is impossible. But besides that, you are missing my whole point. The problem with Nissan isn't the drivetrain, its everything else. Interior materials, build quality, reliability issues, etc. Those are verifiable parts of a truck, they are not subject to interpretation. You either have brake failures or you don't. You either have a vehicle with cheap plastic or you don't. You either have a solid rear end, or one that has metal shavings in it during routine service.

You may be thinking, "Prove our beloved Titans have inferior materials, build quality or reliability issues." Here you go - straight from Titan owners themselves:

Rear end squeek, cannot be fixed by dealer -
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...nd-squeek.html

Chirping sound when going over 60 mph -
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...nterstate.html

More brake problems -
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...squeeking.html

Window not closing all the way, annoying sound on highway -
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...de-window.html

Doors sucking out at highway speed, I couldn't make this up -
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...oss-winds.html

Place for titan owners to report rear end failures, hmmmm, you think more than two of them have this problem?
http://www.titantalk.com/forums/tita...-failures.html

Are all these problems worth a .1 second advantage 0-60? Ummm, no. You said something about a Titan being able to handle 700 rwhp. Hell, the rear end cannot handle 305, how is it going to handle 700?????????????

You made some smart comment that 21 lbs of torque equate to a couple tenths of a second, and because I'm not a racer, I wouldn't know. Sorry Ricky Racer. But, my truck only has 10 lb/torque more than a 5.4 Ford F150, yet its quicker by almost a second. So, tell me again why 21 lbs would only equate to a couple tenths? Because in your words, "torque wins on race day." Personally, I think your comments about a Cummins Titan, a Titan handling 700 rwhp, and the fact you own a Jetta, completely hurt your credibility

 

A WK is the 3rd generation Grand Cherokee. The ZJ was 93-98, the WJ was 99-04 and the WK is 05+. Guess you aren't a Jeep fan.
The Titan drivetrain is the most powerful and has the least problems. It is also extremely smooth, can handle a huge amount of power increases, and is extremely reliable. Should outlast anything on the market that isn't diesel. Not sure what else you are looking for.
Not one brake failure ever reportied I can find. The '04 rotors were warping, but they were replaced in '05. The braking distance 60-0 is best of class and better than the Honda Accord.
As for build quality and interior materials criticisms, that's the kettle calling the pot black. The build problems were in '04 models only, and were corrected as the '04 year went on.
Cheap Plastic? Changed plastic in '05.
Solid rear end? Yes it does. The rear diff had problems, but that was fixed in '06. The armada has the same rear interenals and zero failures, so it has something to do with the old housing, which they changed. Both have a 9000+tow rating.
Don't make me post all the Dodge nightmares for reliabilty or problems. They are 3rd among the Big 3 in those regards. Here's 2700+ complaints/problems people have posted on the '05 1500 on just one web site. http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef06f11
The Ford is heavier and has a 4 speed. Please stop embarrassing yourself. By your calculations, a vette would be a 6 second car.
Sorry if the 700hp titan ruined my credibility. I was mistaken. It was 715hp. SWEEET!
Here's the link. http://www.highbeam.com/library/docf...G%3AResult&ao=
Diesel is a done deal. My buddies on the development team in Germany working on one of the systems.
As for the Jetta, that's the Fiance's. She thinks its "cute".

Sorry, but I'm backing things up with facts, dynos, articles, etc. and you just keep pontificating without any substance so why are you questioning my credibility. Maybe I should have you speak to some of the dozens of Titan guys who are on that board who switched and aren't looking back. Next year will be the real challenge. The new Tundra. But for now, until Ford gets a 5 speed, GM a full makeover, or Dodge some updating and forged internals, its titan time.

 

Okay first of all, you failed to answer any of the questions I brought up.

#1, You can stuff as much power as you want into anything (i.e. 1000 hp in a Supra or WRX). As you know Ricky Racer, you will not be running a stock transmission, rear end, etc on a 715 hp vehicle. For example, if you put a Banks Six Gun tuner on a ANY diesel truck, you are changing the torque converter - otherwise you'd burn up the transmission. They'd do the same thing on a high hp Titan - replace the driveline with aftermarket, beefier parts. Plus, I'd like to see a 715 hp Titan run stock equipment for 10 miles. Care to see how long before the internals grenade?

#2, READ the links I posted from Titantalk.com. At the bottom of their posts, they say what year trucks they have. You will find 2004, 2005, and 2006 Titans with the quality issues NOT JUST 2004's. So, please, get off the argument that ONLY 2004's have problems - because Titantalk.com proves you wrong.

#3, Care to place a bet that Nissan will NEVER have a Cummins in it?

#4, You cannot prove the 06's don't have differential problems, they've only been out a few months. Get back to me on that one slick.

#5, You haven't backed up all your claims with facts. You claimed one source dynoed a Hemi @ 280lbs torque at the rear wheels - I've supplied 2 links showing it is at 300 and 301. The Titan torque is around 302 and 303. You never supplied ANY proof the Cummins is going in the Titan (in fact, your claim goes against all indications from Nissan execs, who are waiting to see demand and how the Titan sells before going into the heavy duty market). You never supplied ANY proof a stock Titan can handle 700 rwhp (just some hokey link that could have been written by ANYBODY. Show me a technical article written by a reputable magazine and a road test). You never explained why Titantalk.com subscribers are suffering build issues with 2004, 2005, and 2006 Titans - you merely blamed the 04's for problems.

#6, And I think this is the greatest problem you have - you don't own a Titan. You have an Armada. Same drivetrain, different weights, aerodynamics, etc. You really should be arguing with a Cherokee owner, not a Ram owner. However, I think you are not arguing with a Cherokee owner, because it's drivetrain is TRULY WORLD CLASS. The SRT-8 Cherokee is quicker than a Porshe Cayenne turbo, yet costs 2/3 the price. From what I have read on MotorTrend, the Armada fairs worse than the Titan in class comparisons. Specifically, they say it is too loud, handles too poorly, and does not have the interior refinement of an Expedition, Tahoe, Durango, or Sequoia.

#7, Try searching this site for 2004-2006 Ram owners complaining of their doors "sucking in" at highway speeds, or having 5 sets of new brakes, or having the rear end replaced several times. Bottom line is, you won't find it here, but you'll find it on Titantalk.com. The threads that get the biggest hits on Titantalk.com are not the ones about performance, they are about recalls. They have a link called "brake recall info" with 40,000 hits!

#8, Don't even start with the sales argument about the Titan. It's still at the bottom of the list as far as number of sales. Right now, it's still trying to beat the Dakota and Colorado - not even in the same league as the Ram, Silverado, Tundra, or F150.

#9, In regards to the plastics, you need to read the beginning of my thread. I test drove a 2006, REPEAT, 2006 Titan. If the materials are this cheap on a 2006, I'd hate to see the 2004.

Please answer these questions in order. I'll be eagerly awaiting your dancing act around my questions

 

If you'd read the article, you'd have seen the 715hp Titan is a race vehicle used in CORR racing, which is long distance off road racing. Very brutal and long drives. It uses the stock internals which the article states specifically. I'm a member of Titan talk. I have over 2000 posts there. I know what's there and I've read the problems. There are few if any '05 and '06 problems.
Remember, there are 8500 members, and less than 1% complaining about problems. As to the cummins diesel bet, whatever. My buddy developed a system for it. Guess he's just a figment of my imagination. The diffs for '04 had a different oil and oil cover spec. than the '05 and '06. They also use a different vendor. Again, less than 1% of titantalk members have been complaining. In contrast, the ford guys, which have the best rear, have far more complaints about their rears than the titan guys.
I gave you the link for the 715hp titan, the link for the dyno of the hemi, etc. You can pull anything out if you want. I went for stock dynos. I would think like any vehicle there would be a range of numbers that you'll find. +/-5% hp tq is common. Problem is, Dodge and most domestics print and promote the top end of the variance, Nissan the bottom. There aren't any build issues on the '05s and '06s, and certainly not as many as dodge owners experience. Probably less than 1/3 of the number of problems. As to argueing for Titan, I'm not as an Armada owner, I'm correcting incorrect info. The Armada is faster than the Titan by .3 typically, and generally does a 7.0 0-60 and high 14s quarter. Dodge doesn't make any vehicles that compete with the Armada. It only competes with the Expedition, Navigator, Suburban, Yukon, Tahoe, and Escalade. The Sequoia, Durango, Commander, etc. are not full size any more than a Tundra or Ridgeline are full size trucks.

Doors sucking=loose weatherstrip, found only on '04. 5 brake repairs reflects an '04 owner who had his rotors rewarping until the new parts came in in '05. Now, no brake problems. Rear end replaced several times='04 with old diff oil spec and cover. New ones aren't doing this.
I seem to find 300 threads with the word problem in the ram forum within the past year. AC leak, rear, transmission, EGR, axel seals, ECM failures, brake problem, squeeks, burning oil, etc. On and on. Don't go there.

As for sales, they hit 92% of target without playing the give it away incentive game. How did dodge do?

 

See, a race Titan is different than a stock one. That makes a big difference than one sitting on a dealer lot. The racing Titan is not going to be ANYTHING close to stock.

I'm not sure if you have trouble clicking the links, or if you have never visited Titantalk.com, but there are definitely more than 1% of owners complaining about problems. There is not much to argue on this point, you either know how to click a link and read, or you don't. Can't help ya there.

Hitting 92% percent of your sales goal is good - until you consider the goal in a larger context. Nissan wants to sell 100,000 a year, OR 8,333 a month. It is now year 3, and they are still trying to reach Year 1's goal. Enough said.

Remember the Ram was redesigned in 2002 (body style) and 2003 with the Hemi. Relatively speaking, it is a new truck - engine, transmission, suspension, etc. You do not hear HALF the problems with a Ram as you do a Titan. To deny that is to be blind to the facts. To somehow quote Ford owners problems and say the Nissan has a smaller number of complaints is just plain funny. Of course you will hear more Ford owners with problems, they SELL 10 times the amount of F150's than the Titan. Larger numbers equals larger problems - the law of probability. With that being said, Chevy started the incentives game. Toyota didn't play the incentive game, and they still mopped the floor with the Titan.

Again, you can have your opinion, but I'm still waiting for a convincing counter argument to my 9 questions. You can try and switch the argument to Armada vs Durango, race Titans vs stock Rams, etc. But the bottom line is, stock Titan vs stock Ram is a dead heat. If you want to start a thread about the qualifications of the Armada, feel free to. But so far, the only incorrect info I've heard is about your "mysterious" diesel guru friend who developed a V8 Cummins for the Titan, a 715 rwhp stock drivetrain Titan (which again is funny considering it cannot handle its current stock power), a Titan having a 21 ft/lb torque advantage, etc.

If you think the Titan/Armada are the greatest mechanical inventions of all time, that is your right. And I commend you for carrying the flag of "all proud Nissan owners across the world" and defending them on a Dodge site. However, I would suggest picking on someone else - Toyota. Nissan has to outsell and class their fellow Japanese automaker before they can lay claim to having the best machines on earth.