I'm faced with the possibility of doing a lot of commuting with my job here in the near future. The driving can become interesting to say the least in the winter here in Wyoming. I was just wondering if everything Jeep in saying about the CRD is reality...fuel mileage and power.

 

I bought a 3.7L '05 Liberty 2WD Sport last August, when they were just released. At the time, the CRD was a 'future' offering only here. Also, none of the local dealers had seen a 6sp manual tranny. Well, with over 8k miles and several trips, I love this vehicle. I have not been stuck in it and really don't miss the 4WD... I bought it to drive on roads. My only dissappointment is the consistent 18mpg it gets on el-cheapo regular. I wanted a CRD... my dealer had one last week - I made two trips - and drove it twice. My wife, who has an '05 SRT-4 for her commute (I am a retired teacher.), also drove it. I then did some research re it's 2.8L engine's heritage, my 3.7L being a proven Daimler design.

I was not impressed. It doesn't have the pep I thought it should have. And, as a diesel, it was noisey and vibrated. Folks on the Liberty forum have not gotten the mileage they were promised. Of course, the Liberty has the drag coefficient of a cinder block, so highway speeds will be costly. The CRD KJ Sport I drove was equipped just like I thought I wanted: 4WD, skid plates, towing, limited slip, etc. It stickered at $27,685 vs my 3.7L 2WD's $22,815. I would lose on a trade, as my car is new, and I still owe most of it. Still, they would have traded for ~$10,300 difference (including pay-out and interest). I was tempted... fortunately, it was white - and I love my light khaki. I thought I could get accustomed to the diesel... even if subsequent searches have found only four diesel pumps in 24 gas stations near me. I went home to see 'who' made the 2.8L CRD... the sticker said it was from Italy. Also, the '5sp' AT is a regular 4sp AT - with a different 2nd gear ratio during downshifts - still just three gear changes.

The 2.8L CRD is made by VM Motori of Cento, Italy. They state that it is the bigger displacement version (different wetsleeves and pistons, etc) of their 2.5L DOHC I4. Glad to know that, as opening the hood revealed a huge plastic square, with a centered oil cap, obscurring the engine. I couldn't tell if it were an I4 or a V6. The oil filter hangs pretty low, too. It needs it's 6.3qt changed regularly - an $82.50/ change oil change at the dealer's, vs the $19.95 special for my 3.7L V6. The camshaft is driven by a belt - not a long life-inspiring component in a diesel. VM Motori, started in 1947 - and began making diesels in 1990, calls the 2.8L CRD 'a light duty diesel' on their website. The smaller 2.0L CRD is used by Hundai. I drove - and rebuilt - Alfa Romeo's and a Fiat for many years... I love Italian cars and engines, despite their less-than-stellar dependability. That pretty much killed my desire for the CRD.

Economy? I made up an equation with the same listed oil change costs and intervals; the fuel mileage (18mpg for my 3.7L & 26mpg for the CRD) and current local costs ($2.10/gal for regular & $2.26/gal for #2); and the real cost difference ($10,300). Ignoring other engine costs, I'd break even at 637,000 miles! So much for economy. And... some states won't allow new passenger car sales - CA & NY, I think.

Oddly, I had wanted the CRD for so long, I probably would have traded, had they a nicer color. Realistically, I don't need 4WD... and, I can tow 5k# as is, should I want to. Whatever you do, don't drive a 3.7L first... it'll spoil you. Good luck!

Stainz05

 

umm....

Hate to break it to you, but the liberty's 5 speed (for the diesel) is a true 5 speed. It has 2 overdrive gears as well as that extra kick down gear. if you go by your logic, it's a 6 speed.

Here's the link. Scroll about 2/3 down until you see the 545RFE transmission for the liberty.

http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty-2005.html

 

And here's a good review of the Liberty.


http://www.allpar.com/model/jeep/liberty-review.html

 

{ HiJack}

Does anybody here actually own a CRD and have you (or know anybody that has ) that has converted it to BioDiesel??
... would like to see what ppl thoughts were on this .... thanks oh and sorry about the Hijack ....

 

I'm commenting on this thread because I've been looking into the BioDiesel aspect for the past 6-9 months. I'm not an expert and some of what I type here might just be my opinion.

The reason I'm doing some research on it is for a way to save money on fuel for some of our County Diesel rigs, and also in case I was to buy a Cummins or other diesel.

From what I've gathered so far, converting to a B100 setup (100% BioDiesel) requires that Viton seals be installed in the fuel system. From the pickup in the tank, to the injectors. BioDiesel does tend to eat away at standard Rubber seals. Flip side of this is that I don't know what, if any, seals on newer vehicles are already Viton type. So the changeover may not be so bad.

Then you have to learn how to make it BioDiesel. There are several ways to do it. True BioDiesel is generally described as being made from a waste vegetable oil (WVO). Some people have recycled and processed used engine oil and either run that by itself, or add it to BioDiesel. Speaking from the standpoint of "BioDiesel is supposed to be better for the environment", I don't believe adding waste engine oil to the mix is a true green setup. The cost of making BioDiesel is much cheaper than conventional diesel. Anywhere from 70 cents per gallon, up to whatever, based on your method of doing it. Obviously, you would want to get WVO from your local fast food joints, but you are going to have to go get it. There are plans on the market to make your own "distillery" and I've included some links below that will get you started on the right track.

WVO burned in a Diesel will smell like french fries. Performance gains/loss are on the negative side. 100% biodiesel will on average lower your mpg about 10% and power will also decrease about 10%. I can live with that if I wanted to. The environmental side of the exhaust is pretty darn good. One of the few, or only, excess emmission that comes out of the pipe is excess CO2. Plant a few trees in your yard, and you'll be able to negate that aspect!!!<bg> The other emmissions that come out of normal Diesel combustion are not present because no petroleum products are being burned.

This is all that I've gathered so far. Here are some links that should be helpful:

http://www.veggieavenger.com
http://www.biodiesel.com
http://www.biodiesel.org

and THE BIODIESEL HOMEBREW GUIDEBOOK at:
http://www.localab100.com/book.htm

 

Here's my view on the topic.... and is based only what I've seen at the proving grounds driving one. First off, its slow as hell off the line with the 6 speed manual, the gears are not smooth through the gates, and the shifter vibrates horribly. If your looking for something that is gonna last forever, has a ton of torque and gets better MPG than a 3.7 V6, then the CRD is for you. I saw a couple of test engineers pull a 15,000 lb. trailer up 15% grade (which is steeper than any mountain I've drove through in Colorado or Wyoming. The only problem was coming down when they deressed the clutch pedal, exploding the clutch itself!! Long story short, if your going for fuel economy and durability, then get the CRD, if you'd like a like smoother ride, and more acceleration, then go 3.7 gas.

 

I pretty much discounted the Liberty CRD once I read that the engine uses a timing belt, instead of a chain or gears. Doesn't sound like that diesel is built for longevity like most of them, and that's one of the main reasons for choosing a diesel, at least in my opinion.

 

Some bad info above.

The CRD 4x4 is returning the mileage figures it promises +/-1. I personally get 20.5 city and 26+/ highway depending on speed. My 2002 3.7L could not comes close to those figures ( It was also 4x4 ). I would be lucky to get 18 highway and 15 city. Members on the L.O.S.T. forum have reported mileage very near the advertized specs. Towing is when the CRD really shines as compared to the 3.7L towing 5,000 pounds...mileage differences are about 22 for the CRD and maybe 12 for the 3.7L...figures from my experiences and other reports on L.O.S.T.

As for the 3.7L being a "proven design"? The Liberty was the first vehicle to get this engine. It is not a 4.7L with two cyclinders cut off. Is has similiar construction but is not proven be any means. The VM Italian Diesel has been around as a 2.5L, expanded to a 2.8L and then fianlly a 2.8L with the VGT ( Variable Gate Turbo-elcetronically controlled vanes chage with demand/rpm's ect). VM is about 40% owned by Detroit Diesel which in turn owned by DC.

The true 5 speed automatic ( 3 gears that are 1:1 or more and two overdrives and an extra kickdown gear ) is used because the 295 foot pounds of torque at 1800 rpm has the grunt to push the two overdrives. THe 3.7L is constantly downshifting on the highway and can not run the extra overdrive.

The oil change is recommended every 12,500 miles and is a small price to pay for the extra mileage...I get basically 30% better fuel mileage with the CRD 4x4 than the 3.7L 4x4. Apples to Apples.

As for it's "light duty diesel" moniker...that is what it is...it is not a dump truck.

As for the price difference, it is not apples to apples if you expect to work in your depreciation from your other Liberty. The basic price difference from you 05 3.7L 2x4 and my 06 CRD 4x4 was less than $3700.00 and I got a $2000 rebate after the fact, 4x4 Selec-Trac, Electronic Stability Control, Roll Over Mitigation control, ABS, Fogs, 5 speed Auto ect.
Basically with the extras you pick up on a CRD Sport 4x4 as compared to a 3.7L Sport 4x4 is ~ $800.00. You do pay in reality about $1800 more for the CRD but it included the Selec-Trac upgrade, ABS, ESP, ROM, Fod Lights and Wheel upgrade.

As for the other issue of the manual cluth exploding...you can not get the manual in the CRD in the USA...auto only and it shifts smoothly in mine.

I didn't post to prove somebody wrong...things get posted on the internet...then get interpreted...then get reposted differently...and then the info is not helpful.

 

6 months later?