682 cc injectors
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Record Breaker
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From: KY/TN Area. Still NYC iz home!
682 cc injectors
I just had a talk with AGPturbo 4 days ago; and they explained to be that the 682cc injectors was over-rated @ 58psi's. They said that they are pushing 550cc. Now this alarmed me[:@] cause i was under the assumption that it really was 682cc in my Stage2. So i called another DSM and they said the same thing. Is there an official website (like MOPAR) to get the facts about the injectors? Cause im really pissed about it....
Thnx
Thnx
Champion
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,361
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From: NY
RE: 682 cc injectors
they are not over rated. damn this is another example of why i don't like agp....
mopar rates their injectors using a different method then some other companies, so the readings are a little different. here's a good explaination of the difference, which will probably confuse you more than it will help. this explaination is only applicable for stage 0 (03) and 1 injectors. i have not seen the exact numbers for the stage 2 injectors, but it will follow the same equations if you work it out.
"RC uses 760 -770 kg/m^3 as the density of their test fluid. We use n-heptane which has a density of 685 kg/m^3. An injector's mass flow is dependent on the density of the fuel. If two different fuels are flowed through the same injector, the volumetric flow rate of each fuel should be the same. This said, both sets of numbers for the injectors that you have are wrong. The correct numbers are as follows:
For n-Heptane @ 58 psi,
2003 Injectors - 359.4 g/min = 47.4 lb/hr = 524.7 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 395.3 g/min = 52.2 lb/hr = 577.1 cc/min
RC Engineering and most aftermarket injector companies flow their injectors at 43 psi. Using Bernoulli's equation, the mass flow can be corrected to:
For n-Heptane @ 43 psi,
2003 Injectors - 309.5 g/min = 40.8 lb/hr = 451.8 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 340.4 g/min = 44.9 lb/hr = 496.9 cc/min
If RC Engineering flowed our injectors with their test fluid @ 43 psi, they would rate the injectors as follows:
2003 Injectors - 343.3 g/min = 45.3 lb/hr = 498.3 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 377.6 g/min = 49.8 lb/hr = 547.8 cc/min
Basically injectors are volumetric flow devices, so a more dense fuel will flow more mass flow than a less dense fuel at the same volumetric flow rate. This is a very confusing subject. As you can see, it is very easy for a company to skew their flow ratings in their favor. There will always be some error in ratings until all injectors in question are flowed on the same test bench with the same test fluid at the same test pressure." - Jeremy@srtforums.
mopar rates their injectors using a different method then some other companies, so the readings are a little different. here's a good explaination of the difference, which will probably confuse you more than it will help. this explaination is only applicable for stage 0 (03) and 1 injectors. i have not seen the exact numbers for the stage 2 injectors, but it will follow the same equations if you work it out.
"RC uses 760 -770 kg/m^3 as the density of their test fluid. We use n-heptane which has a density of 685 kg/m^3. An injector's mass flow is dependent on the density of the fuel. If two different fuels are flowed through the same injector, the volumetric flow rate of each fuel should be the same. This said, both sets of numbers for the injectors that you have are wrong. The correct numbers are as follows:
For n-Heptane @ 58 psi,
2003 Injectors - 359.4 g/min = 47.4 lb/hr = 524.7 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 395.3 g/min = 52.2 lb/hr = 577.1 cc/min
RC Engineering and most aftermarket injector companies flow their injectors at 43 psi. Using Bernoulli's equation, the mass flow can be corrected to:
For n-Heptane @ 43 psi,
2003 Injectors - 309.5 g/min = 40.8 lb/hr = 451.8 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 340.4 g/min = 44.9 lb/hr = 496.9 cc/min
If RC Engineering flowed our injectors with their test fluid @ 43 psi, they would rate the injectors as follows:
2003 Injectors - 343.3 g/min = 45.3 lb/hr = 498.3 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 377.6 g/min = 49.8 lb/hr = 547.8 cc/min
Basically injectors are volumetric flow devices, so a more dense fuel will flow more mass flow than a less dense fuel at the same volumetric flow rate. This is a very confusing subject. As you can see, it is very easy for a company to skew their flow ratings in their favor. There will always be some error in ratings until all injectors in question are flowed on the same test bench with the same test fluid at the same test pressure." - Jeremy@srtforums.
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Record Breaker
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: KY/TN Area. Still NYC iz home!
RE: 682 cc injectors
The EQUATION you provided is not confusing. We dumb aviator Crew chief's do some math sometimes on our Blackhawks....J/K.
One question, PSI
Are you a rated mechanic? I read on another page what your job is and your goal... more power to you!!!
Your knowledge, As a LADY, about vehicles is very impressive. Or do you get ya answers from a knowledgable source...
One question, PSI
Are you a rated mechanic? I read on another page what your job is and your goal... more power to you!!!
Your knowledge, As a LADY, about vehicles is very impressive. Or do you get ya answers from a knowledgable source...
Champion
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 4,361
Likes: 0
From: NY
RE: 682 cc injectors
i'm not a mechanic, at least not one that's certified anywhere. i've been working on and have been around cars since i was about 15. i spent a few years rebuilding and selling old cars to make money when i was a teenager, and it's amazing what you learn trying to get some of these old cars back in running order. i've really just been around cars a lot, and spent a lot of time picking the brains of various mechanics and tuners. i've spent the last few years in the mustang world working on the beast in the garage, which is where i was able to pick up a lot of useful info about upgrading and tuning. my boyfriend is also a great source of info, and he's more than willing to let me pick his brain about whatever i want or explain things to me that i'm not familiar with. he's currently (finally) getting his master mechanic cert so he can get paid properly for the work he does.
so bascially, no i'm not a mechanic. it's just a hobby for me, but something i really love to do.
so bascially, no i'm not a mechanic. it's just a hobby for me, but something i really love to do.
Record Breaker
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,740
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From: Phila, PA
RE: 682 cc injectors
ORIGINAL: PSI Chick
they are not over rated. damn this is another example of why i don't like agp....
mopar rates their injectors using a different method then some other companies, so the readings are a little different. here's a good explaination of the difference, which will probably confuse you more than it will help. this explaination is only applicable for stage 0 (03) and 1 injectors. i have not seen the exact numbers for the stage 2 injectors, but it will follow the same equations if you work it out.
"RC uses 760 -770 kg/m^3 as the density of their test fluid. We use n-heptane which has a density of 685 kg/m^3. An injector's mass flow is dependent on the density of the fuel. If two different fuels are flowed through the same injector, the volumetric flow rate of each fuel should be the same. This said, both sets of numbers for the injectors that you have are wrong. The correct numbers are as follows:
For n-Heptane @ 58 psi,
2003 Injectors - 359.4 g/min = 47.4 lb/hr = 524.7 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 395.3 g/min = 52.2 lb/hr = 577.1 cc/min
RC Engineering and most aftermarket injector companies flow their injectors at 43 psi. Using Bernoulli's equation, the mass flow can be corrected to:
For n-Heptane @ 43 psi,
2003 Injectors - 309.5 g/min = 40.8 lb/hr = 451.8 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 340.4 g/min = 44.9 lb/hr = 496.9 cc/min
If RC Engineering flowed our injectors with their test fluid @ 43 psi, they would rate the injectors as follows:
2003 Injectors - 343.3 g/min = 45.3 lb/hr = 498.3 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 377.6 g/min = 49.8 lb/hr = 547.8 cc/min
Basically injectors are volumetric flow devices, so a more dense fuel will flow more mass flow than a less dense fuel at the same volumetric flow rate. This is a very confusing subject. As you can see, it is very easy for a company to skew their flow ratings in their favor. There will always be some error in ratings until all injectors in question are flowed on the same test bench with the same test fluid at the same test pressure." - Jeremy@srtforums.
they are not over rated. damn this is another example of why i don't like agp....
mopar rates their injectors using a different method then some other companies, so the readings are a little different. here's a good explaination of the difference, which will probably confuse you more than it will help. this explaination is only applicable for stage 0 (03) and 1 injectors. i have not seen the exact numbers for the stage 2 injectors, but it will follow the same equations if you work it out.
"RC uses 760 -770 kg/m^3 as the density of their test fluid. We use n-heptane which has a density of 685 kg/m^3. An injector's mass flow is dependent on the density of the fuel. If two different fuels are flowed through the same injector, the volumetric flow rate of each fuel should be the same. This said, both sets of numbers for the injectors that you have are wrong. The correct numbers are as follows:
For n-Heptane @ 58 psi,
2003 Injectors - 359.4 g/min = 47.4 lb/hr = 524.7 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 395.3 g/min = 52.2 lb/hr = 577.1 cc/min
RC Engineering and most aftermarket injector companies flow their injectors at 43 psi. Using Bernoulli's equation, the mass flow can be corrected to:
For n-Heptane @ 43 psi,
2003 Injectors - 309.5 g/min = 40.8 lb/hr = 451.8 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 340.4 g/min = 44.9 lb/hr = 496.9 cc/min
If RC Engineering flowed our injectors with their test fluid @ 43 psi, they would rate the injectors as follows:
2003 Injectors - 343.3 g/min = 45.3 lb/hr = 498.3 cc/min
2004 Injectors - 377.6 g/min = 49.8 lb/hr = 547.8 cc/min
Basically injectors are volumetric flow devices, so a more dense fuel will flow more mass flow than a less dense fuel at the same volumetric flow rate. This is a very confusing subject. As you can see, it is very easy for a company to skew their flow ratings in their favor. There will always be some error in ratings until all injectors in question are flowed on the same test bench with the same test fluid at the same test pressure." - Jeremy@srtforums.
Okay. Now I'm damn impressed, PSIchick. You really know your stuff - a lot of dealers would be thrilled to have your type of knowledge in the bay. I appreciate the fact that you aren't a mechanic but know more than most. I am a real estate broker and have a strong affinity for auto's and tuning(and engineering in general) and while I consider myself pretty handy with this stuff, you just made me feel inadequate.
You go, girl.
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RE: 682 cc injectors
okay so how does this work, soo... i have a 2004 with stock injectors, if i upgrade the fuel pump and regulator how does it scale
in other words
will the stock 2004 injectors @ (43lbs stock + 19lbs boost=52 lbs) support 325 hp
(sorry, i'm still trying to work out the math for this stuff.. )\
(ps.. any links to the math would be helpful)
in other words
will the stock 2004 injectors @ (43lbs stock + 19lbs boost=52 lbs) support 325 hp
(sorry, i'm still trying to work out the math for this stuff.. )\
(ps.. any links to the math would be helpful)
