Have any of you raced before stock or stage 1? Then got stage 2 and felt a " timed speed" difference?
I have read what seems to be about 50% of the people on different forums who get stage 2 and they are unhappy because their times didnt drop or didnt drop much unless they used the HOM.

This concerns me as the whole set up is approx. 1300 + 350catback = 1650. If their is any doubt I would rather stay clear and find a shorter safer path???

Here is where I need your help oh wizards of the forum!

I dont plan on dropping high octane - for me it would not be practical all the time, it costs allot and it seems useless to me since i dont go to the track. In the end the boost control and intercooler sprayer do not seem worth 450 dollars!!
So stage 2 w/out toys would be 850+350 catback = 1200

Correct me if I am wrong but it seems like one could closely mirror the power upgrde of the stage two without toys and get a better wastegate (AGP) 150? 12hp+ MBC 50 (which you would not get on stage 2 w/out toys) + the catback 350 7 HP + stage 1 325= $ 875 10 hp = 230 stock HP to 258 260 HP close to equivalent to stage 2???

You save 325 and you get a mbc, a better wastegate, and you could take the rest of the money and get a short throw shifter, better plugs and wires, catch can, motor mounts all for still barely less. Thats allot of upgrades for less money and equivalent HP!

Sounds to good to be true...so it probably isnt..
What am I missing? Can someone enlighten me ?

( I know the MAP and TIP sensors have been upgraded in the stage 2 along with the injectors increase but too many people are stating that the PCM screws that up? any comments on this???)

By the way I have read that getting better plugs then stock and gapping your plugs at 40 to 45 or 35 to 40 was a good idea??? Why? Does this add HP in any way? Why not keep the stock plugs and stock gap??

 

welcome to the age old debate of s2 or s1/wga/mbc. it's the never ending battle of which is better.

i never had s1 with add ons, but a lot of people around here do. i had s2 w/toys. one thing i can tell you, even without hom on, i never lost to a s1/wga/mbc car. ever. if i had race gas in, forget it. it's been shown that w/i can hold hom for s2, so you don't even need to be running race gas to use it.

 

Also let me add another question/benefit to the above.

The stage 2 with toys will not pass the street legal test if your state tests the PCM ( which most do now correct?) . I know you can get some kind of device that tricks the PCM and the tester but its just another cost and hook up ...to an already questionable set up.

However what I have read the stage 2 without will pass and so will the stage 1 without toys is this correct??

 

how is stage 2 w/toys a questionable set up? it's been tested a lot more than s1 and bolt on has and has far less problems. if anything it's a much SAFER set up. and s2 w/toys is easy enough to pass by going back to stock for the stock ecu and sensors. it's s3 that seems to have much more problems. i know, i was the test for the trans simulator!

there is no s1 with or without toys. it's just stage 1. yes, stage 2 without toys will pass, different ecu programing.

 

Thanks PSI...probably an impossible questions to answer then ...fun to argue but impossible to answer.

The guys you did race (the stage one guys w/ mods that you beat) were you only at stock w/stage 2 or had you added more goodies like 3' exhaust, cai etc.??

How do you feel about the AGP that mopar has on your stage 2 w/boost control ...does it add up to the AGP?? Where do you have your boost control set to keep your PSI at???

 

Whoops I typed on the stage one with toys I am an idiot but not that dumb ..sorry


Ok so what exactly is needed to pass with stage 2 with toys? Do you change the PCM back to stock or buy something to fool it this transimulator thingy??? Is it easy to hook up ? where do you buy it?


TO be honest I would rather run with Mopar if you are getting good results maybe the ones with problems just have boost leaks or are idiots or something...

By the way the stage 2 looks easy to install the toys part seems hard ...did you install it and how hard was the toys part?

Thanks !

 

to pass emissions you can do one of two things. you can either remove the s2 ecu, disconnect the toys harness, remove the sensors and injectors, and re-install all stock parts back on the car every year. or you can get the trans simulator, plug it in and don't worry about it forever. the trans simulator will cost an estimated $100 or so, and installs in about 30 seconds. you plug it into the green connector on the ecu and forget about it. it will be availible from n2mbracing sometime in the next few weeks, you can find them on our local board srt-4mation.

s2 w/toys has to be tuned. that is the major mistake that people make. the 4mm wga setment is what mopar says you should do. will it work? yes. is it the best for every car? no. once you install it's best to fiddle with the wga settings and see what your car responds to best. i ran a 5mm preload on my car and this was good for me. with that preload, i saw spikes of 21psi and i held 19psi. i also had some other bolt ons, like a cai, tb, and i had a 3" o2 housing with a 3" dp connected to the 2.5" borla. i dynoed 273/304 on pump gas. major boost leaks will also screw up how it performs.

the toys harness is a pain to install. if it's your first one, plan for a good 3-4 hours just for that. the other s2 components can be installed in 1-2 hours, they're not bad at all. we have it down now where we can do an entire s2 w/toys install in about 4 hours. it's not hard to do the toys, just time consuming. you have to watch what you're doing and read the instructions carefully (yes, this is one time where you really do need to read the instructions!). we did mine and many others in driveways and garages with basic tools, so this is something that you can take on yourself. i would suggest having someone else around to keep you from going nuts doing all that wiring though. but really, a friend, two six packs, and some chineese takeout and you're good to go!

 

Thanks PSI for your time and information!
By the way I have found a PDF on the install for the stage 3 but do you know anywhere I can download the instructions so I can get a good look at what I am getting into?

 

S2 pros: faster than s1 w/other mods, safer and easer to use, no messing around with it, still looks stock
cons:can take a long time to get after ordering, runs super rich

s1 w/ mods pros:can be cheeper
cons: a lot of tweeking to get it right, if you dont know what your doing you can break stuff...

those are the only general things i can think of. imo its no contest s2 will win. ive also had a few local guys do both routes cause the s1 was cheeper but they both sold there s1 stuff and went s2.

 

i have the instructions, but i'm not sure what you have. if you want them, i can email them to you.