95 Avenger 2.0 DOHC not starting.. we changed the crankshaft sensor
#1
07-17-2006, 06:04 PM
95 Avenger 2.0 DOHC not starting.. we changed the crankshaft sensor
HOPE YOU CAN HELP....
I have a '95 avenger with the 2.0 DOHC I4, 5 speed manual. The previous symptoms I had was the car shuting off on occasion while idling at a stop light or even when making a slow turn. Now, the car died while making a turn and will not restart. Upon visual inspection the tube seals around the spark plugs had leaked and completely submerged spark plugs #1 and #4 and halfway submerged #2 and #3 in oil. We replaced the valve cover gasket, tube seals, fuel filter (hadn't been changed in awhile), got a new battery, plugs and wires and cleaned out all the oil. Still no spark. and the check engine light will not come on to wher we can get a code. We took the coil in and the fellow at Autozone checked with a Multimeter comparing it to a new unit and said ours "should" be good. So we continued on and decided to change the crankshaft sensor.
Here is my trouble:
Apparently there has been an update on the crankshft sensor and it requires the installation of a new harness. Well the original harness has three wires.. Yellow, black with green stripe, and a blue with a white stripe... the replacement has a redish orange wire, a black wire with a grey stripe and a grey wire with an orange stripe.... Which wires goes to which???
the people at Autozone are not sure which wires go to which
We tried the yellow to the redish orange ---- the black to black --- the grey to the blue.
Still turns over .. still wont' start.. still no spark...
Planning to change out the coil anyway...
I have a '95 avenger with the 2.0 DOHC I4, 5 speed manual. The previous symptoms I had was the car shuting off on occasion while idling at a stop light or even when making a slow turn. Now, the car died while making a turn and will not restart. Upon visual inspection the tube seals around the spark plugs had leaked and completely submerged spark plugs #1 and #4 and halfway submerged #2 and #3 in oil. We replaced the valve cover gasket, tube seals, fuel filter (hadn't been changed in awhile), got a new battery, plugs and wires and cleaned out all the oil. Still no spark. and the check engine light will not come on to wher we can get a code. We took the coil in and the fellow at Autozone checked with a Multimeter comparing it to a new unit and said ours "should" be good. So we continued on and decided to change the crankshaft sensor.
Here is my trouble:
Apparently there has been an update on the crankshft sensor and it requires the installation of a new harness. Well the original harness has three wires.. Yellow, black with green stripe, and a blue with a white stripe... the replacement has a redish orange wire, a black wire with a grey stripe and a grey wire with an orange stripe.... Which wires goes to which???
the people at Autozone are not sure which wires go to which
We tried the yellow to the redish orange ---- the black to black --- the grey to the blue.
Still turns over .. still wont' start.. still no spark...
Planning to change out the coil anyway...
#2
07-17-2006, 08:30 PM
#3
07-17-2006, 08:34 PM
RE: Another 95 Avenger not starting.. we changed the crank sensor
if you are getting power, u can do one of two things to get a error code from the ECU, you can do the keydance (without turning the engine over), turn the key to ON-OFF-ON-OFF-ON, then after all the status lights go out, your CEL light will blink. codes are in pairs of numbers (i.e. if it flashes 4 times, long pause, then 5 times, its code 45) and then when you get a code of 55 that is the end code (you will always have code 55) OR b/c i believe you have OBD I? you could go to a shop and have them hook it up to a scanner, cause autozone doesnt do OBD I, just OBD II.
as for your crankshaft pos. sensor needing a new harness, do you mean that the plastic connector has to be cut off and then the wires spliced?
as for your crankshaft pos. sensor needing a new harness, do you mean that the plastic connector has to be cut off and then the wires spliced?
#4
07-17-2006, 08:37 PM
RE: Another 95 Avenger not starting.. we changed the crank sensor
ORIGINAL: jakbob
as for your crankshaft pos. sensor needing a new harness, do you mean that the plastic connector has to be cut off and then the wires spliced?
as for your crankshaft pos. sensor needing a new harness, do you mean that the plastic connector has to be cut off and then the wires spliced?
as far as the codes.. we have tried the key dance .. and it still won't gives us a code of any sort
and to have it hooked up...
i would have to have it towed...
#5
07-17-2006, 11:37 PM
#6
07-18-2006, 02:31 AM
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RE: Another 95 Avenger not starting.. we changed the crank sensor
Hi Draconisferret
One thing I might suggest is to get those sensors at the dealership if for nothing but to keep the wiring correct. I don't trust Autozone for delicate products like sensors because they use off the wall vendors/products that don't exactly match up to stock parts both physically and figuritively....from my past experiences with them anyway.
I'd like to ask if you've possibly checked your ASD relays located on the firewall on the driver's side? They can be replaced with regular ol' Radio Shack 30A relays. I'm not sure if you have a 3 pack or a 4 pack but check your manual, it contains the fuel relay, ASD, EATX (if auto), and the fourth is unknown. Here's to addon to what you've already done and what I've noticed to happen more often than anything else in these cars
One thing I might suggest is to get those sensors at the dealership if for nothing but to keep the wiring correct. I don't trust Autozone for delicate products like sensors because they use off the wall vendors/products that don't exactly match up to stock parts both physically and figuritively....from my past experiences with them anyway.
I'd like to ask if you've possibly checked your ASD relays located on the firewall on the driver's side? They can be replaced with regular ol' Radio Shack 30A relays. I'm not sure if you have a 3 pack or a 4 pack but check your manual, it contains the fuel relay, ASD, EATX (if auto), and the fourth is unknown. Here's to addon to what you've already done and what I've noticed to happen more often than anything else in these cars
disturbingavenger
Bad ASD Relay Symptoms
Usually starts by stalling while driving, progresses into not starting at all, often it will start after several attempts. Engine will have no spark, and you will not hear the fuel pump run when the key is turned on, therefore, no fuel pressure.
These same symptoms have been noticed if a Fuel Pump Relay goes bad or during a computer failure. The Fuel pump relay should not cause a loss of spark.
What to check
First of allwhen you first turn the car on does the Check engine light for a couple seconds? It should as part of the self test when you turn the key on. If it does not then i may be a defective computer, or a burnt out bulb, if the bulb is burnt then you may have a code that you don't even know about. So check that out first.
If your car is a 95-97 perform the key dance. See link for instructions
http://www.2gnt.com/www/files/pcmcode.htm
If you have a 98+ you will need to go someplace such as Autozone, and have them do a free code check. A relay problem usually will not show a code, but if you get a code there is a good chance whatever the code is indicating is causeing your problem.
After the car has sat for a couple minutes with the key off, Turn the key to the ON position, but not far enough to engage the starter. Under normal conditions you will hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds, to build pressure in the system. The fuel pump is located under the back seat and should be audible from inside the car, or get a friend to stand beside the rear of the car and listen for it.
Check for spark, pull one of the spark pug wire of a plug and insert the metal end of a screwdriver into the end of the wire. Lay the wire and screwdriver onto the metal part of the engine and have someone crank the engine. (don’t touch the screwdriver while the engine is cranking or you’ll be screaming obscenities)
If you see spark and hear the fuel pump than your ASD and Fuel Pump Relays are both good. If you see spark and have no fuel pump noise then i could be the fuel pump relay (or the pump). If the car is experiencing intermittent periods of not starting, then you will need to try this several times. It is possible that the one time you perform these checks, could be the one time the car will start without trouble.
Solutions
The ASD relay is mounted under the hood on the driver’s side of the firewall. near the brake fluid master cylinder
Some cars will have 2, 3, or 4 relays in this position, depending on which transmission you have. The Fuel pump Relay is always on the left (passenger’s side) with the ASD relay beside it. Only Automatic trans cars have the EATX relay, and 95 models have a fourth relay of unknown function.
To replace the relays you have 2 options.
1. Go to the dealer and order a new one. I believe someone payed $20+ at the dealer.
2. Go to your local autoparts store or Radio Shack and buy a 30 amp Bosch style relay. This relay will plug right into your harness and is identical to the original expect it will not clip to the mounting bracket like the original. You can usually disassemble your original and new relays and reassemble the new relay “guts†into the original factory housing. This way it will mount to the bracket.
If this does not solve the problem you could be having computer problems, there are several outputs you can check on the computer, before pricing and looking for a new one.
Bad ASD Relay Symptoms
Usually starts by stalling while driving, progresses into not starting at all, often it will start after several attempts. Engine will have no spark, and you will not hear the fuel pump run when the key is turned on, therefore, no fuel pressure.
These same symptoms have been noticed if a Fuel Pump Relay goes bad or during a computer failure. The Fuel pump relay should not cause a loss of spark.
What to check
First of allwhen you first turn the car on does the Check engine light for a couple seconds? It should as part of the self test when you turn the key on. If it does not then i may be a defective computer, or a burnt out bulb, if the bulb is burnt then you may have a code that you don't even know about. So check that out first.
If your car is a 95-97 perform the key dance. See link for instructions
http://www.2gnt.com/www/files/pcmcode.htm
If you have a 98+ you will need to go someplace such as Autozone, and have them do a free code check. A relay problem usually will not show a code, but if you get a code there is a good chance whatever the code is indicating is causeing your problem.
After the car has sat for a couple minutes with the key off, Turn the key to the ON position, but not far enough to engage the starter. Under normal conditions you will hear the fuel pump run for 2 seconds, to build pressure in the system. The fuel pump is located under the back seat and should be audible from inside the car, or get a friend to stand beside the rear of the car and listen for it.
Check for spark, pull one of the spark pug wire of a plug and insert the metal end of a screwdriver into the end of the wire. Lay the wire and screwdriver onto the metal part of the engine and have someone crank the engine. (don’t touch the screwdriver while the engine is cranking or you’ll be screaming obscenities)
If you see spark and hear the fuel pump than your ASD and Fuel Pump Relays are both good. If you see spark and have no fuel pump noise then i could be the fuel pump relay (or the pump). If the car is experiencing intermittent periods of not starting, then you will need to try this several times. It is possible that the one time you perform these checks, could be the one time the car will start without trouble.
Solutions
The ASD relay is mounted under the hood on the driver’s side of the firewall. near the brake fluid master cylinder
Some cars will have 2, 3, or 4 relays in this position, depending on which transmission you have. The Fuel pump Relay is always on the left (passenger’s side) with the ASD relay beside it. Only Automatic trans cars have the EATX relay, and 95 models have a fourth relay of unknown function.
To replace the relays you have 2 options.
1. Go to the dealer and order a new one. I believe someone payed $20+ at the dealer.
2. Go to your local autoparts store or Radio Shack and buy a 30 amp Bosch style relay. This relay will plug right into your harness and is identical to the original expect it will not clip to the mounting bracket like the original. You can usually disassemble your original and new relays and reassemble the new relay “guts†into the original factory housing. This way it will mount to the bracket.
If this does not solve the problem you could be having computer problems, there are several outputs you can check on the computer, before pricing and looking for a new one.
RyaN95i4
If you experience these symptoms, but the ASD relay is not your problem, you may have an ECU issue. A simple check to isolate a relay versus computer issue is to watch for the CEL during the initial key-on procedure.
When you first turn the key to the on position, a series of lights will momentarily flash on the instrument cluster (abs, cel, etc). If the CEL does NOT flash while you are experiencing the no-start symptoms, then the ECU has cut out. Check all connections. If all connections are good, the ECU usually is in need of replacement.
Note: Thanks to Jim for the Relay write-up. This is also available in the general problems forum, however it is being reposted here so that it may easier to find among the 420a FAQ.
If you experience these symptoms, but the ASD relay is not your problem, you may have an ECU issue. A simple check to isolate a relay versus computer issue is to watch for the CEL during the initial key-on procedure.
When you first turn the key to the on position, a series of lights will momentarily flash on the instrument cluster (abs, cel, etc). If the CEL does NOT flash while you are experiencing the no-start symptoms, then the ECU has cut out. Check all connections. If all connections are good, the ECU usually is in need of replacement.
Note: Thanks to Jim for the Relay write-up. This is also available in the general problems forum, however it is being reposted here so that it may easier to find among the 420a FAQ.
#7
07-19-2006, 07:19 AM
Join Date: Jun 2005
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#8
07-20-2006, 03:29 AM
RE: Another 95 Avenger not starting.. we changed the crank sensor
I was running out of options...
I was going to swap out the relays but after all the work I had put into it
with no success
I went ahead and had the dodge dealership tow it in...
but they have not called me on a situation yet...
i will keep you posted.
I was going to swap out the relays but after all the work I had put into it
with no success
I went ahead and had the dodge dealership tow it in...
but they have not called me on a situation yet...
i will keep you posted.
#9
07-20-2006, 05:17 PM
#10
07-28-2006, 06:27 PM
RE: Another 95 Avenger not starting.. we changed the crank sensor
basically the PCM or Powertrain Control Module had to be replaced...
tha car is now starting and running BUT
the engine light is still on so I did the "key dance"
noe i have a code perteining to the
Pulsed secondary air injection solenoid circuit --- Legacy code - Pulsed secondary air injection recalled and removed in '96
is this going to cause me a problem???
tha car is now starting and running BUT
the engine light is still on so I did the "key dance"
noe i have a code perteining to the
Pulsed secondary air injection solenoid circuit --- Legacy code - Pulsed secondary air injection recalled and removed in '96
is this going to cause me a problem???
