EFI control solutions for OBD I - 95 Dakota 5.2L
#31
04-26-2019, 05:57 PM
My name is not Toby.
Otherwise, good thing your opinion has no influence on what others do with their truck.
Youre also talking about spending money that doesnt need to be spent with the swap. Like injectors. And as I stated, not all sensors need to be swapped. Just have to see what's what when someone would do it. Recondition the harness? Uh ya, no. Usually not going to be needed either.
An aftermarket system isnt going to have better and/or more features. Not sure where youre getting that from either.
Otherwise, good thing your opinion has no influence on what others do with their truck.
Youre also talking about spending money that doesnt need to be spent with the swap. Like injectors. And as I stated, not all sensors need to be swapped. Just have to see what's what when someone would do it. Recondition the harness? Uh ya, no. Usually not going to be needed either.
An aftermarket system isnt going to have better and/or more features. Not sure where youre getting that from either.
So, if your name is not Toby, what is it? Sure sound like him and he too has a 96 dakota with a 360. Wow what a coincidence.
You say I am talking about money that does not need to be spent.
Tell us, what is the cost to convert a as you described above? Please include the harness, computer, sensors, intake, tuning, etc needed. Lets compare to the total cost of an Edelbrock pro flo 4 at $1899.00 (total)
An aftermarket system is superior in many ways, Knowing you dont understand why, let me explain a few
1. The total system, distributor, injectors, computer, sensors, throttle body, intake, wiring, everything is new and not 23 years old.
2. Use a wideband O2 sensor, and will do a much better job of fine tuning itself then any tuner will do on a stock mopar system
3. Self Tuning. If latter, OP decides to add headers, or stroke the motor, change compression, it will again, self tune. (free)
Last edited by 93 ragtop; 04-26-2019 at 06:11 PM.
#32
04-26-2019, 09:05 PM
Don't really care what your name is, but, that particular statement is wrong, and unnecessary. After all, whose opinion do you think a typical new member is going to feel counts for more? Some rude low-post count newb? Or someone that has been here a while, and is respected for their knowledge, and helpful posts? You can argue your point, but, statements of that nature are NOT welcome here. We aren't the most tolerant bunch, and too much of that will get you banned.
#33
04-26-2019, 09:13 PM
#34
04-27-2019, 10:53 AM
Chuck litty had great success and ask him, hed do it again in a heart beat. His truck now has a supercharged 5.9 with a t56 transmission. Injectors dont need changed if its something simple like 95 to 96. Nor do other sensors if its as simple as 95 to 96. Even if they do, there's not much that would have to be bought. Sensors need changed anyways eventually.
Jtec does NOT have limited support. Ryan Hogan can do anything you need from stock, mild to wild. Theres a jeep grand Cherokee running 10's and better. Theres dakotas running 12's and better. A lot are I. The 11s and a decent amount close to or in the 10s. On jtec obd2. You dont have to worry about anything being wrong with a tune from Ryan Hogan.
What have you accompished at the end of the day? More power, better driveability, more mpg and a better truck all around. All stock vehciles benefit from having a tune. Especially jtec in particular. Doesn't matter if you just want a better dd, or youre going full race mode.
Again, theres no "trying" to do this. Its been done. Theres really not much wiring on magnum engines to begin with. Theres really nothing more that can be done with these trucks that someone else hasnt already done.
It just comes down on if you have the time and can find a donor for the right price.
I myself would never do it. There's so many great 96 Dakota's out there still that it makes more sense to buy one of those to begin with for cheap. And if youve already started building your engine just swap the engine.
Unless your current obd1 is just freaking emaculant. Which is the number 1 reason chuck did the swap. The obd1 truck was the right price and its literally perfect. Rust free etc.
Oh last thing, if op is spending money on heads cam lifters pushrods etc, he probably has common sense to get rid of the junk kegger intake.
Jtec does NOT have limited support. Ryan Hogan can do anything you need from stock, mild to wild. Theres a jeep grand Cherokee running 10's and better. Theres dakotas running 12's and better. A lot are I. The 11s and a decent amount close to or in the 10s. On jtec obd2. You dont have to worry about anything being wrong with a tune from Ryan Hogan.
What have you accompished at the end of the day? More power, better driveability, more mpg and a better truck all around. All stock vehciles benefit from having a tune. Especially jtec in particular. Doesn't matter if you just want a better dd, or youre going full race mode.
Again, theres no "trying" to do this. Its been done. Theres really not much wiring on magnum engines to begin with. Theres really nothing more that can be done with these trucks that someone else hasnt already done.
It just comes down on if you have the time and can find a donor for the right price.
I myself would never do it. There's so many great 96 Dakota's out there still that it makes more sense to buy one of those to begin with for cheap. And if youve already started building your engine just swap the engine.
Unless your current obd1 is just freaking emaculant. Which is the number 1 reason chuck did the swap. The obd1 truck was the right price and its literally perfect. Rust free etc.
Oh last thing, if op is spending money on heads cam lifters pushrods etc, he probably has common sense to get rid of the junk kegger intake.
Even trying to find the Mopar Peformance computer for the vehicle (P5249545) seems to be impossible.
I've had this vehicle since 2000 and am the second owner. The body is in good condition and the frame is solid. I have done the following modifications to the truck:
1) Hedman Headers
2) Transgo Shift Kit
3) Fastman throttle body
4) Mopar M1 Intake
5) 180 deg thermostat
6) Mopar 166k stall converter (2200 RPM stall)
7) A/C delete
I got it to a point where the next step is real upgrades - heads, camshaft and a tune. What I'm afraid of is putting in a lot of money and time and finding it runs like sh*t and
there is no solution.
To be honest converting to OBD II seems like a big nightmare with the chance of making a mistake that could render the vehicle unsafe. The one thread where the guy shows how he did it shows him cursing and swearing and not recommending it to other people. I'd like to have the ability to bring it back to stock if necessary. Also finding an 1996 wiring harness and ECM with the poor selection we have in Canada is not going to be easy.
I guess I need to do some serious thinking about whether this project is worth it and maybe look at getting another vehicle that is easier to tune.
#35
04-27-2019, 12:00 PM
Record Breaker
#36
04-27-2019, 06:51 PM
Need to be able to dismount the prom from the printed circuit board (that's where the tune is stored), then you need to be able to erase it, and then you need to be able to write to it. Of course, you also need software that knows what's what in the code, and tables, so you know what changes you are making. So far as I know, there isn't any publicly available software for the Chrysler computers..... So, if B&G aren't doing it any more...... time to upgrade to OBDII, or, get a standalone system. I don't know of anyone else that does PCM tuning for OBDI dodges.....
#37
04-28-2019, 01:30 AM
Champion
What's missing are the tables; MPTune is still available.
Also, the upgrade to make a SMEC/SBEC field writeable - while BoostButton is no more, at least the boards are available. https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/bnV5HMIs for SMECs and https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/6dluJRSp and https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/ZmAN4cue for SBECs.
MPTune can be had at https://sites.google.com/site/mpsuite/mptune2 .
Installation of the flash modules in a SBEC http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...8&d=1384390717 or SMEC http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...8&d=1294777150 isn't really all that difficult. I find it easier than doing a camshaft install, for instance. (Others, it may be the other way around. Different strokes, different folks, and I grew up with a hot soldering iron in my hand back in the late 60's ... )
The cal files for MPTune? Well, that's the rub. They don't seem to be available.
RwP
Also, the upgrade to make a SMEC/SBEC field writeable - while BoostButton is no more, at least the boards are available. https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/bnV5HMIs for SMECs and https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/6dluJRSp and https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/ZmAN4cue for SBECs.
MPTune can be had at https://sites.google.com/site/mpsuite/mptune2 .
Installation of the flash modules in a SBEC http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...8&d=1384390717 or SMEC http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...8&d=1294777150 isn't really all that difficult. I find it easier than doing a camshaft install, for instance. (Others, it may be the other way around. Different strokes, different folks, and I grew up with a hot soldering iron in my hand back in the late 60's ... )
The cal files for MPTune? Well, that's the rub. They don't seem to be available.
RwP
#38
04-28-2019, 09:30 AM
Record Breaker
What's missing are the tables; MPTune is still available.
Also, the upgrade to make a SMEC/SBEC field writeable - while BoostButton is no more, at least the boards are available. https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/bnV5HMIs for SMECs and https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/6dluJRSp and https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/ZmAN4cue for SBECs.
MPTune can be had at https://sites.google.com/site/mpsuite/mptune2 .
Installation of the flash modules in a SBEC http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...8&d=1384390717 or SMEC http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...8&d=1294777150 isn't really all that difficult. I find it easier than doing a camshaft install, for instance. (Others, it may be the other way around. Different strokes, different folks, and I grew up with a hot soldering iron in my hand back in the late 60's ... )
The cal files for MPTune? Well, that's the rub. They don't seem to be available.
RwP
Also, the upgrade to make a SMEC/SBEC field writeable - while BoostButton is no more, at least the boards are available. https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/bnV5HMIs for SMECs and https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/6dluJRSp and https://oshpark.com/shared_projects/ZmAN4cue for SBECs.
MPTune can be had at https://sites.google.com/site/mpsuite/mptune2 .
Installation of the flash modules in a SBEC http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...8&d=1384390717 or SMEC http://www.turbo-mopar.com/forums/at...8&d=1294777150 isn't really all that difficult. I find it easier than doing a camshaft install, for instance. (Others, it may be the other way around. Different strokes, different folks, and I grew up with a hot soldering iron in my hand back in the late 60's ... )
The cal files for MPTune? Well, that's the rub. They don't seem to be available.
RwP
Definitely a case of careful what you ask for. Never done a cam, but I am a self taught computer user so??? If I win the lotto I'll pay you to build the setup Ralph 
Now where did those pesky cal files go????Thanks Hey You IDK that either.
#39
04-28-2019, 03:56 PM
Champion
Start with a Moates Ostrich ( http://www.moates.net/ostrich-20-the....html?cPath=64 ) and clone the current firmware into it, then work tracing it.
Helps it's known to be a 68HC11 CPU in there; those debuggers and disassemblers are freeware all over the place.
(Also using some of the same equipment used away back when by the GM folks).
It's what I would do if I were self-motivated enough to tackle it.
RwP
#40
04-30-2019, 08:43 AM
If you end up trying to convert the system from OBD 1 to OBD 2 please consider this.
Before you modify your motor, do the conversion and get it running correctly.
Below are my reasons I would do this.
1. You know your truck is running correctly now. So the only changes would be the upgraded OBD 2 system.
If there are any bugs, ie incorrect wiring, sensors incompatible, injectors wrong, whatever may pop up, you can iron out those problems before you start your mods.
2. If you do it all at once, heads, cam, wiring, and programming, and have a problem,
a. is it the wiring?
b. something not compatible?
c. and a biggie, is tuning correct?
Twice, I have been down this path, and mine, did not include a computer change. Just programming engine mods.
I have a 93 corvette. I switched out the cam, heads, and added long tube headers. Purchased a tune and it ran extremely rich at idle. Tuner kept saying problem was my car. Went to another tuner, he straightened it out. Bottom line was, it was the first tuner had it all wrong.
Years latter, Bored and stroked it, bigger cam, better heads, different injectors, etc. This time the tune was lean on top end. Again, back and forth with the tuner. Finally took it in to be dyno tuned. Turned out my injectors were not flowing anyways near as much as they should. He replaced the injectors and now it is fine.
Believe me, you dont want to end up trying to figure out why your truck does not run right with too many variables in the mix,
Good luck and let us know what you do and how it turns out!!
Before you modify your motor, do the conversion and get it running correctly.
Below are my reasons I would do this.
1. You know your truck is running correctly now. So the only changes would be the upgraded OBD 2 system.
If there are any bugs, ie incorrect wiring, sensors incompatible, injectors wrong, whatever may pop up, you can iron out those problems before you start your mods.
2. If you do it all at once, heads, cam, wiring, and programming, and have a problem,
a. is it the wiring?
b. something not compatible?
c. and a biggie, is tuning correct?
Twice, I have been down this path, and mine, did not include a computer change. Just programming engine mods.
I have a 93 corvette. I switched out the cam, heads, and added long tube headers. Purchased a tune and it ran extremely rich at idle. Tuner kept saying problem was my car. Went to another tuner, he straightened it out. Bottom line was, it was the first tuner had it all wrong.
Years latter, Bored and stroked it, bigger cam, better heads, different injectors, etc. This time the tune was lean on top end. Again, back and forth with the tuner. Finally took it in to be dyno tuned. Turned out my injectors were not flowing anyways near as much as they should. He replaced the injectors and now it is fine.
Believe me, you dont want to end up trying to figure out why your truck does not run right with too many variables in the mix,
Good luck and let us know what you do and how it turns out!!