1st Gen Durango 1998 - 2003 Durango's

ATF+3 & ATF+4 Facts

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Old Dec 7, 2009 | 07:01 PM
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Default ATF+3 & ATF+4 Facts

After hearing the continued talk about ATF+3 and ATF+4 and also talking to my sources I have come to the conclusion that I would search for the facts concitering the replacement of ATF+3 with ATF+4. First off why, and second was the facts surrounding is it Fully Synthetic or Conventional? During my pokeing around and talking to my sorces including the 1qt sales price of $4.50 at the dealer (which is low for Fully Synthetic) the whole thing just left a bad taste in my mouth. So here is the results and supporting documentation for my decisions.

First the Mopar ATF+4 I hold in my hand states "Specially formulated from Very High VI base stock and a unique additive package." "Also recommended for for Power Steering Systems".

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/fluids.html

http://u225.torque.net/cars/tech/trans/982674.pdf

I then looked into the Lubrizol Corporation as they were able to develop a transmission fluid that sets new standards of performance put as stated it was produced without the added cost of Fully Synthetic base stock....Hmmmmmm


After reading these I followed it up with Mopar approved blending companies. These included:

Valvoline
Exxon-Moble
Shell

Then I decited to look up the MSDS sheets to find out if they were made with a Fully Synthetic base stock like Polyalphaolefin (PAOs).

http://www.esso.ca/Canada-English/Fi...uper_ATF_4.pdf

VALVOLINE® ATF +4 AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLUID

http://www.equivashellmsds.com/getsi....asp?ID=191032

TSB 19-005-03 Regarding use as Power Steering fluid however in the 1998 and 1999 and some 2000 year Durangos should use Brown Fluid MS-5931. Always consult you owners manual!

http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2003/19-005-03.htm

In short, You need to look at the manufactures MSDS Sheets to ensure that even though the company has Fully Synthetic on the bottle users must understand what the manufacture base oil was derived from. Avoid the performance limitations imposed by the impurities present in conventional and hydroprocessed base oils which are different as in Polyalphaolefin (lab created).

Understanding Fully Synthetics:

http://www.mobil.com/australia-engli..._v_mineral.asp


Here are the approved manufacture companies of ATF+4:

http://www.centerforqa.com/licensedatf4brands.html


Great info discusing the differences between Fully Synthetics.....Mineral Oils and Polyalphaolefins (True Synthetic):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil

I found this and have shortened it:

Chrysler will only license Chrysler ATF+4 for our transmissions. I think that Chrysler ATF+4 is a synthetic blend as I have read the MSDS sheets attached. The problem is that even if another fluid meets or exceeds Chrysler's standards, they will not license it for use in their vehicles which require ATF+4. This gives them legal maneuvering room to say you voided your warranty by using a "non-recommended" fluid, even though that fluid is as good or better than theirs.

Since Chrysler wanted the to develop a special fluid for their transmission, they, along with the additive pack company (Afton, Lubrizol, Infinieum), and the blenders (ExxonMobil, Shell, Valvoline) worked together to produce a finished product that’d work in the ATF+4 application. Chrysler worked closely with the additive pack manufacturers to produce an additive pack that’ll provide the necessary anti-wear protection and friction modification for the fluid as specified by Chrysler. The additive pack manufacturer will then suggest a possible base oil mix to the blender, who will then blend the final product.

The blender is not required to use a specific base oil mix. The additive pack manufacturer will of course suggest a possible mix for the fluid to meet the specifications, but what the blender ultimately uses is up to them. However, whatever they decide to use, the fluid must still be capable of meeting the performance tests for Chrysler ATF+4 particular fluid specification.

The blender’s final product will be put through OEM tests to verify its performance and become “licensed” for factory and service fill in that particular application.

Here’s where it gets tricky. When Chrysler and the additive pack company work together to develop the additive package, they chose not to allow licensing of the product to other blenders. Of course, the company that originally developed the additive pack, and the company that blended the product you buy at the dealer, will have the licensed product as they were the original developers of the product. Chrysler also allowed PetroCanada to produce an ATF+4 fluid as a “licensed” product, but they may’ve been the original blender of the product, but I don’t know for sure why. But, Chrysler chose not to allow the additive manufacturer they originally worked with, to sell the additive pack “recipe” to other additive package manufacturers so other blenders can buy the additive pack and blend a similar fluid. Thus, the only licensed product would be the product you buy under the Mopar brand name, blended with an additive pack the company they worked with originally developed, and their designated blender, or the PetroCanada brand name.

However, provided that it doesn’t violate their license agreement, the additive package manufacturer or other additive pack manufacturers may produce a similar additive pack that will work in the application but of course, it cannot be certified or tested by the OEM to verify performance, as they will not license their product. This is how Amsoil, Valvoline, and Pennzoil obtained their additive packages for their multi-vehicle fluid to work in an ATF+4 application.


However, the Multi-Vehicle Transmission Fluid is not the same thing as ATF+4 and therefore should not be used as a replacement fluid and I strongly do NOT recommend it's use.


Here is more info:
https://dodgeforum.com/forum/1st-gen...2-durango.html
 

Last edited by hydrashocker; Mar 30, 2010 at 01:14 AM.
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Old Dec 8, 2009 | 12:51 AM
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Add http://www.BobIsTheOilGuy.com to that list.

IndyD
 
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Old Dec 10, 2009 | 11:37 AM
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here is the SAE paper regarding atf+4 development.

pdf link:
http://u225.torque.net/cars/tech/trans/982674.pdf

what it boils down to is atf+3+4 fall into the category of "highly friction modified" transmission fluid.
atf+4 was developed so chrysler's could go 100,000+ miles on factory fill atf. it is a much more shear stable fluid, do to- enhanced viscosity improvers, enhance antiwear agent additives, friction modifiers and group 3 or 4 base oil.

atf+3 was made out of group 2 base oil, which is why it was shearing at 30,000 miles.
the paper listed above is very informative! mike
 
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Old Dec 10, 2009 | 07:28 PM
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^ You got it! ^
 
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Old Jan 30, 2012 | 10:43 PM
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Not tryin to sound like a dick here...but if atf+3 shears at 30,000 and atf+4 at 100,000 what's the point of using +4 if I'm gonna change.it around 30,000 anyway?
 
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Old Jan 30, 2012 | 10:54 PM
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No value to you then. Just keep what you have especially in a 12 year old rig already.

IndyDurango
 
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Old Jan 30, 2012 | 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mikeismadness
Not tryin to sound like a dick here...but if atf+3 shears at 30,000 and atf+4 at 100,000 what's the point of using +4 if I'm gonna change.it around 30,000 anyway?
First off good luck findin' atf+3. Also the forward band can be adjusted without dropping the pan so you can keep that atf+4 in your tranny for 100,000miles.
 
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Old Jan 30, 2012 | 11:03 PM
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Ok I didnt know. I'm about ready to purge my tyranny and adjust the bands so I was just asking questions lol thanks for the reply
 
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Old Jan 30, 2012 | 11:06 PM
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Yes you can adjust the front band without removing the pan, but you need to remove the pan to adjust the rear band. Dodge only recommend service the transmission every 30k, Thats weather you use ATF+2, ATF+3 or ATF+4. So if you want to change the trans fluid every 30k or 100k. That is up to you mikeismadness, I'm also posting a TSB too.


This bulletin is supplied as technical information only and is not an authorization for repair. No part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system,
or transmitted, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, photocopying, or otherwise, without written permission of Chrysler LLC.
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 21-010-06, DATED
APRIL 14, 2006, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. ALL
REVISIONS ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND INCLUDES THE
ADDITION OF THE ASIAN WARNER (AW4) TRANSMISSION AND ADDITIONAL
MODELS AND YEARS.
SUBJECT:
Automatic Transmission Fluid Usage ATF+4 (Type MS9602)
MODELS:
1989 - 1995 (AA) Spirit/Acclaim/Lebaron Sedan
1989 - 2003 (AB) Ram Van/Wagon
1989 - 1993 (AC) Dynasty/New Yorker/New Yorker Salon
1989 - 1993 (AD) Ram Truck
1989 - 1994 (AG) Daytona
1989 (AH) Lancer/Lebaron GTS
1989 - 1995 (AJ) Lebaron Coupe/Lebaron Convertible
1989 - 1990 (AK) Aries/Reliant
1989 - 1990 (AL) Horizon/Omni
1989 (AM) Diplomat/Gran Fury/New Yorker fifth Avenue
1989 - 2004 (AN) Dakota
1989 - 1994 (AP) Shadow/Sundance
1990 - 1991 (AQ) Maserati
1990 - 1993 (AY) Imperial/New Yorker Fifth Avenue
1994 - 2003 (BR/BE) Ram Truck
2004 - **2008** (CS) Pacifica
1998 - 2003 (DN) Durango
2002 - **2008** (DR/DH/D1) Ram Truck
2007 - **2008** (DC) Ram 3500 Cab Chassis
1995 - 2000 (FJ) Sebring/Avenger/Talon
1996 - 2000 (GS) Chrysler Voyager (International Market)
NUMBER: 21-014-07
GROUP: Transmission
DATE: October 16, 2007
2004 - **2008** (HB) Durango
**2008 (HG) Aspen**
1995 - 2000 (JA) Cirrus/Stratus/Breeze
2007 - **2008** (JK) Wrangler
2001- 2006 (JR) Sebring Sedan & Convertible/Stratus Sedan
2007 - **2008** (JS) Avenger/Sebring/Serbring Convertible
1996 - 2000 (JX) Sebring Convertible
**2007 - 2008 (KA) Nitro**
2002 - 2007 (KJ) Liberty
**2008 (KK) Liberty**
**2008 (L2) 300C (China)**
1993 - 2004 (LH) Concorde/Intrepid/Vision/LHS/New Yorker
/300M
2005 - **2008** (LX/LE) 300/Magnum/Charger
2005 - **2008** (ND) Dakota
1996 - 2000 (NS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
1995 - 2005 (PL) Neon
2002 - 2003 (PG) PT Cruiser (International Markets)
2001 - **2008** (PT) PT Cruiser
1997 - 2002 (PR) Prowler
2001 - 2007 (RG) Chrysler Voyager (International Markets)
2001 - 2007 (RS) Town & Country/Caravan/Voyager
**2008 (RT) Town & Country/Grand Caravan/Grand Voyager
(U.S. & International Markets)**
1997 - 2006 (TJ) Wrangler
2001 - 2004 (WG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
Vehicles equipped with Gas engines
1999 - 2004 (WJ) Grand Cherokee
2005 - **2008** (WK/WH) Grand Cherokee
2006 - **2008** (XK/XH) Commander
1989 - 1995 (YJ) Wrangler
**1989 - 2001 (XJ) Cherokee**
**1989 - 1993 (MJ) Comanche**
1996 - 1998 (ZG) Grand Cherokee (International Markets)
1994 - 1998 (ZJ) Grand Cherokee/Grand Wagoneer
NOTE: **AW-4 (Asian Warner) transmissions are now included in this Service
Bulletin. ATF+4® is recommended for AW-4 (Asian Warner) transmissions**
21-014-07 -2-
NOTE: This Service Bulletin DOES NOT apply to the following transmissions:
• Sprinter transmissions
• Crossfire transmissions
• MK/PM vehicles equipped with Continuously Variable Transmission
(CVT)
• WG vehicles equipped with a diesel engine (sales code ENF) and a
W5J400 or NAG1 transmission (sales code DGJ)
• **ALL vehicles equipped with a AS68RC Transmission (sales code
DG3)**
• **ALL vehicles equipped with a GENTRAG MPS6 Transmission (sales
code DG5)**
DISCUSSION:
ATF+4® - (Type 9602) is being used as factory fill for Chrysler Group automatic
transmissions. ATF+4® is recommended for all vehicles equipped with Chrysler
Group automatic transmissions EXCEPT FOR THOSE LISTED IN THE NOTE ABOVE.
NOTE: ATF+4® must always be used in vehicles that were originally filled with
ATF+4®. DO NOT USE ANY OTHER FLUID.
NOTE: ATF+4® is backward compatible with ATF+3 , ATF+2, and ATF+. Additionally,
ATF+4® can be used to top off vehicles that used ATF+3, ATF+2, or ATF+.
NOTE: If ATF+4® is used to service models originally filled with ATF+3 , ATF+2, and
ATF+ the fluid maintenance schedules listed for that model does not change.
The service interval currently in effect for a given model should continue to
be followed. Refer to the Service or Owners manual for maintenance
schedule directions.
In general terms, If ATF+, ATF+2 or ATF+3 was the recommended fluid, it is now
recommended to use ATF+4®
BENEFITS
•Better anti-wear properties
•Improved rust/corrosion prevention
•Controls oxidation
•Eliminates deposits
•Controls friction
•Retains anti-foaming properties
•Superior properties for low temperature operation
FLUID COLOR
Mopar ATF+4® has exceptional durability. However, the red dye used in ATF+4® is not
permanent; as the fluid ages it may become darker or appear brown in color. ATF+4® also
has a unique odor that may change with age. With ATF+4® fluid, color and odor are no
longer indicators of fluid condition and do not necessarily support a fluid change.
-3- 21-014-07
PARTS REQUIRED:
Qty. Part No. Description
AR 05013457AA Fluid, Transmission, ATF+4® (Type 9602), Quart
AR 05013458AA Fluid, Transmission, ATF+4® (Type 9602), Gallon
POLICY:
Information Only
 
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Old Jan 30, 2012 | 11:10 PM
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Changing the fluid every 30k sounds better to me lol. I do have some questions regarding purging and adjusting the bands...

1. How do I know when I'm done purging? I read the article on purging just confused.

2. How do I go bout adjusting the bands? What tools do I need?

Which line is the return line?

What tranny does my 00 R/T have and how many quarts do I buy?
 
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