1st Gen Neon 1995 through 1999 Neons

Stock motor+ turbo=?

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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 01:22 AM
  #41  
das2123's Avatar
das2123
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From: Spring, TX
Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

Modern sells a 2.4 side motor mount adapter, thats all you need. Other mounts line up. Here is some info rrwertz provided...

ORIGINAL: rrwertz

2.4 is the easiest motor swap there is, easier than any honda.
what is your car? year/engine, etc. what 2.4 are you putting in?
if your car is sohc, get a 97-99 dohc engine harness.

need a stratus 2.4 pass mm adapter plate.
pass side adapter.
trim fmm to clear oil pan.
24 lb injectors
move injectors down one
swap outer coil pack wires
sohc hood will not work, no matter how much you cut out
need a dohc computer.
use neon tranny.
get a modded srt clutch. pretty cheap. need new to bearing
dohc tps and iac neon
dohc cams turn cam magnet 90 degrees

new water pump, srt tensioner, upgraded tensioner bolt, oil pump, timing belt, headgasket are good things to replace while it is easy.
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 01:44 AM
  #42  
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JoKeR6
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Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

ORIGINAL: das2123

Modern sells a 2.4 side motor mount adapter, thats all you need. Other mounts line up. Here is some info rrwertz provided...

ORIGINAL: rrwertz

2.4 is the easiest motor swap there is, easier than any honda.
what is your car? year/engine, etc. what 2.4 are you putting in?
if your car is sohc, get a 97-99 dohc engine harness.

need a stratus 2.4 pass mm adapter plate.
pass side adapter.
trim fmm to clear oil pan.
24 lb injectors
move injectors down one
swap outer coil pack wires
sohc hood will not work, no matter how much you cut out
need a dohc computer.
use neon tranny.
get a modded srt clutch. pretty cheap. need new to bearing
dohc tps and iac neon
dohc cams turn cam magnet 90 degrees

new water pump, srt tensioner, upgraded tensioner bolt, oil pump, timing belt, headgasket are good things to replace while it is easy.
K, he says something about a motor mount "adapter plate"? Whats that? I don't understand what he means by "move injectors down one"? What coil pack wires do you need? the neons? Trim the fmm? whats that? Tps and iac? whats that? and I have no idea what turn cam magnet means? lol, Sorry for all the questions, if I seen it done or had pics I would be fine, lol.
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 02:03 AM
  #43  
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das2123
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From: Spring, TX
Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

ORIGINAL: JoKeR6
K, he says something about a motor mount "adapter plate"? Whats that?
HERE is what he is talking about.

ORIGINAL: JoKeR6
I don't understand what he means by "move injectors down one"? What coil pack wires do you need?
Not the injectors, but the wires from the coil pack to the spark plugs from 1-2, 2-3, 3-4, 4-1.. You use the DOHC wires, but must swap them around also. This is because the firing sequence is different on the 2.4 than the 2.0.

ORIGINAL: JoKeR6
Trim the fmm?
Front motor mount, you may have to trim, you may not.

ORIGINAL: JoKeR6
Tps and iac? whats that?
Throttle Position Sensor and Idle Air Control Sensor. You have to use them from DOHC engine.

ORIGINAL: JoKeR6
and I have no idea what turn cam magnet means?
If you are using 2.0 cams in the 2.4 you have to rotate the Cam magnet 90°.

Here is some more good info...
ORIGINAL: Eddy Fierro

One tiny error on that Steve , it's 1-4 that's batch fired on the ignition and 2-3 ( if you look at a block with the head off you will see that when piston #1 is at TDC,...... so is piston #4 ( I know it was late when we spoke , after a good night's sleep I can make sense of it).

SO by switching the two outer wires on the coil pack you change the igniton timing around and that takes care of the igntion systems as far as the 2.4 being 180 out of phase.

Now you did it the right way the 1st time when you set up your 2.4 , I don't know why you changed it around.

When you cut off the nipples (ouch 8O ) off of the cam magnet and moved it 90 degrees ( cam degrees ) you in essence did jog the sequentcial Injector firing order one down ( because you moved the injector firing order 180 crank degrees forward when you moved the cam sensor 90 cam dergees) why ?

Because 90 cam degrees are 180 crank degrees that's the reason.

Remember the little numbers stamped on the AEM cam gears?
*1 degree = 2 crank degrees*

So when you moved the magnet 90 degrees you actually moved it 180 crankshaft degrees in reference to the 720 degrees it takes for one complete firing sequence.

(1st) 180 Degrees TDC to BDC.................... intake stroke
(2nd) 180 degrees BDC to TDC..................compression stroke
(3rd) 180 degrees TDC to BDC..................power stroke
(4th) 180 degrees BDC to TDC...................exhaust stroke

so a total of 720 crankshaft degrees to complete 1 four stroke cycle.

Dennis did the same thing the long way , he actually moved the injector firing sequence at the harness to make the 2.0 pcm work with the 2.4 motor.
Both of you did the same things in two different ways.

But keep in mind that it is the crank sensor that is used for igntion timing and the cam magnet is used for injector firing sequence.

That is why when I slotted the cam magnet pickup ( the one with the green o-ring that always leaks) to advance the ignition timing before I got the AFX pcm , it didn't work ( at least not with the igntion timing) it did not advance the ignition timing.

I checked it with a timing light and quick reference mark I made on the crank pulley just to see if the mark moved at all ( which it didn't because it doesn't control igntion timing) I probably advanced injector timing seuqence instead , but I didn't have a way of checking that. ( I do, but I don't want to confuse people)

So to recap, by switching the two outer wires at the igntion coil pack conector you took care of the igntion being off 180 crank degrees ( remember coil firing is batch fired not sequential)......................... and by turning the cam magnet 90 degrees on the back of the camshaft ( 180 crankshaft degrees that is) you jogged the four stroke cycle one over in essensce on the injector sequential firing sequence. ( you advanced the injector firing sequence to the next cylinder)

I think the intial confusion was in the fact that the cam magnet is refered to as simply 90 degrees off on the camshaft , which leads to believe that it is different then the 180 crank shaft degrees that the crank/igntion timing is off, when if fact if you think about it, both are actually 180 crankshaft degrees off on a 2.4 VS the 2.0 if you think about both in crankshaft degrees.

The other confusion was about the coil packs, they are not sequenctial, when number 1 piston is firing on the power stroke, number 4 piston is also firing at TDC on the overlap stroke, but before we get confused over that * but Eddy, how can it fire on the overlap if the fuel charge is coming in at the same time, won't detonate the fuel charge?*

Very simple, on the valve overlap, the intake valve opens up before the exhaust valve closes right.......
That means that there is an expanding burning gas in the chamber when the intake valve is opening ( just barely), the reason the exhaust gasses don't back into the intake is the scavenging effect of the exhaust manifold.

It actually pulls the exhaust out and brings some of intake charge in with it as it is exiting the combustion chamber.

That is why cars with bigger cams ( more overlap) will idle like crapola in the lower rpm's because there is reversion, not enough scavengin going on , but as you go higher in the rpm the scavengin effect is accentuated by the very same overlap and you can actually stuff more fuel/air charge in there.
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 02:06 AM
  #44  
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Dazzellerr
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Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

check out my progress log if you have any questions on the install, how to's, ect ect.
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 02:11 AM
  #45  
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Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

damn, sweet, that all is VERY helpfull, not I will stop bothering you guys for a bit and do some reading
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 02:26 AM
  #46  
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Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

Looking at your thread Dazzellerr, thought you would have the 2.4 swap. But it looks like(from t he first 2 pages) that its a turbo buildup? I am VERY interested in the 2.4 turbo. Also Das, I got kinda confused on what you quoted
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 03:43 AM
  #47  
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Dazzellerr
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Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

sohc 95 buildup with stock internals. i will push the envelope on this motor lol.
i dont believe in motor swaps. if god wanted a 1st gen with a 2.4, he would have created one in the first place lol.
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 12:32 PM
  #48  
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Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

i was thinking of doin the 2.4 swap at one point but then i figured that the extra money it would take to buy the 2.4 in the first place is just more money that could just go into the 2.0

im just gonna do everything i can to this poor little motor...except just mild cams...nothing out ragous since the car is gonne be driven all the time
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 04:17 PM
  #49  
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Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

I am a little late in the game reading this post, but I have one of those adapter plates to adapt a DOHC manifold to a SOHC motor. I might be persuaded to part with it cheap. Just a thought, well kind of an afterthought. Sorry if I drug your thread back about 3 pages.
 
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Old Mar 9, 2007 | 04:21 PM
  #50  
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das2123
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From: Spring, TX
Default RE: Stock motor+ turbo=?

^^Whats cheap?
 
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