2nd Gen Dakota Tech 1997 - 2004 Dodge Dakota Tech - The ultimate forum for technical help on the 2nd Gen Dakota.

Cranks, No Start, ignition coil wire always grounded

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #1  
Old 06-02-2019, 09:14 AM
Bret Korthals's Avatar
Bret Korthals
Bret Korthals is offline
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Cranks, No Start, ignition coil wire always grounded

My 3.9L 1997 dakota has had trouble starting, intermittent stalling. I started throwing parts at it and here is a list of them:

-PCM (ouch in the pocket book, thought it fixed it but was mistaken)
-Ignition Coil ($10 dollar hail mary)
-Cam sensor (needed anyway)
-Crank Sensor ($20 dollar hail mary)
-Cap and rotor (needed anyway)
-Sparkplugs (needed anyway)


After those things I've noted that I'm getting fuel, but at time no spark from the ignition coil (which i've replaced so I know it's good) When I get spark I pop right off.
I thought maybe the wiring from the pcm to ignition coil was bad so i ran a wire directly from pin 6 (black with gray stripe) to the ignition coil. (I got it to run by chance parked it and it won't start again)
So I took an led and wired it up to the negative of the battery and the 12v green with orange stripe and get constant signal (that checks out good).
I took my led and hooked it up to the pin 6 black/gray stripe and the other end of the led to my positive battery terminal. I get a faint light at all time and no pulsing when i manually move the belt so that i can hear my crank sensor click.
From what i was reading it should pulsate when i'm doing this on and off, but it's just a constant faint light.
 

Last edited by Bret Korthals; 06-02-2019 at 10:41 AM.
  #2  
Old 06-02-2019, 09:17 AM
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou
HeyYou is offline
Administrator
Dodge Forum Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clayton MI
Posts: 80,697
Likes: 0
Received 3,171 Likes on 2,924 Posts
Default

Could be the connector itself is bad, not making good contact, or, another bum PCM......
 
  #3  
Old 06-02-2019, 09:23 AM
Bret Korthals's Avatar
Bret Korthals
Bret Korthals is offline
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by HeyYou
Could be the connector itself is bad, not making good contact, or, another bum PCM......
I cut the wire from a few inches off the pcm and ran my own wire because i thought that it might be bad at a splice or something any ideas for wiring on the other side of the pcm?
 
  #4  
Old 06-02-2019, 10:21 AM
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou
HeyYou is offline
Administrator
Dodge Forum Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clayton MI
Posts: 80,697
Likes: 0
Received 3,171 Likes on 2,924 Posts
Default

PCM just grounds the circuit, and opens it to fire the coil. That's it. If it isn't doing it, likely the PCM is bad.
 
  #5  
Old 06-02-2019, 11:16 AM
magnethead's Avatar
magnethead
magnethead is offline
Legend
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 7,923
Received 152 Likes on 139 Posts
Default

The PCM likely needs a minimum RPM to trip the ASD relay to provide power to the coil and injectors, and to pulse the cold side of the coil. I don't know that minimum RPM might be off hand if such requirement exists, but that is one of several reasons why these trucks hate low voltage. Spinning over slow combined with insufficient voltage to fire the injectors and coil.

Coil should fire four times per rotation of the crankshaft, so 50 RPM should be 200 sparks per minute, or a little over 3 times a second. You should be able to see that on your LED as you spin the engine around on the starter.

You verified that the 12V side of the coil and fuel injectors has 12V, right? That voltage comes from the ASD relay, which is triggered by the PCM.
 
  #6  
Old 06-02-2019, 11:27 AM
Bret Korthals's Avatar
Bret Korthals
Bret Korthals is offline
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by magnethead
The PCM likely needs a minimum RPM to trip the ASD relay to provide power to the coil and injectors, and to pulse the cold side of the coil. I don't know that minimum RPM might be off hand if such requirement exists, but that is one of several reasons why these trucks hate low voltage. Spinning over slow combined with insufficient voltage to fire the injectors and coil.

Coil should fire four times per rotation of the crankshaft, so 50 RPM should be 200 sparks per minute, or a little over 3 times a second. You should be able to see that on your LED as you spin the engine around on the starter.

You verified that the 12V side of the coil and fuel injectors has 12V, right? That voltage comes from the ASD relay, which is triggered by the PCM.
Yep I'm getting solid 12v from the ASD. I took my led wired it to the negative battery terminal and ignition coil terminal (green/orange) and got solid bright light.
I was moving manually and could hear the click as i moved it around but never saw any change in the led.
 
  #7  
Old 06-02-2019, 12:37 PM
magnethead's Avatar
magnethead
magnethead is offline
Legend
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 7,923
Received 152 Likes on 139 Posts
Default

You shouldn't have ASD voltage with the engine sitting still, except for 3 seconds at key-on. If ASD voltage is always present, that again points to a possible PCM issue.
 
  #8  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:20 PM
Bret Korthals's Avatar
Bret Korthals
Bret Korthals is offline
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by magnethead
You shouldn't have ASD voltage with the engine sitting still, except for 3 seconds at key-on. If ASD voltage is always present, that again points to a possible PCM issue.
I think we're mis communicating here, Hold on I'll get a video of what I mean.

I get bright light when I crank, so voltage is present when cranking.

 
  #9  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:47 PM
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou
HeyYou is offline
Administrator
Dodge Forum Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Clayton MI
Posts: 80,697
Likes: 0
Received 3,171 Likes on 2,924 Posts
Default

Ok, that's pretty much the way it is supposed to work. You have bypassed the PCM completely there.

Put your led between the positive terminal on the battery, and the ground circuit of the coil, (wire that goes to the PCM) see if it pulses.
 
  #10  
Old 06-02-2019, 01:56 PM
Bret Korthals's Avatar
Bret Korthals
Bret Korthals is offline
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by HeyYou
Ok, that's pretty much the way it is supposed to work. You have bypassed the PCM completely there.

Put your led between the positive terminal on the battery, and the ground circuit of the coil, (wire that goes to the PCM) see if it pulses.
That is what my first video is of positive to black/gray ground. I then moved the engine manually and it remains a faint light NOT bright and doesn't pulsate.
 


Quick Reply: Cranks, No Start, ignition coil wire always grounded



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:49 AM.