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I suppose more is better ? With this set-up you have made 2 points of suction to eliminate gasses and moisture built up regulated by one PVC Valve, as i see it.
The PCV valve's are actually on the back on top of the cilinder heads, originally the left and right banks and the filler neck where only fitted on the back off the intake manifold.
The tube on the right side was going to the old pcv valve on the oil filler neck, wich was the highest point of the motor.
This was intended to eliminate the moisture to built up, but many had the problem of sludge being built op in the filler neck.
Mine has as wel when i bought it, but only a little.
So for me the solution was the way Martin explained, got one new style PCV valve on the left bank and this one is going straight to the back on the intake manifold and on the right bank straight to the intake side of the air cleaner and i plugged the hole in the filler neck.
My pcv is on the oil fill tube, already pulled it to verify it is working and cleaned it.
I would do 2 pcv's, one off each valve cover to 1 vacuum source... that way there is less opportunity for gasses to accumulate in the head/valve cover areas. Will investigate more when the time comes. One thing that did come to mind just now is to create an oil separator setup and have the oil dump back into the oil fill tube. Another thing that comes to mind is how much vacuum is actually needed on the other side of the pcv valve. Things to look at...
That stuff in the filler neck is not really textbook sludge.
Ask yourself what is sludge? Sludge is contaminated, dirty engine oil, usually from neglect. Essentially, it is oil mixed with worn metal, oxidation and dirt. Sludge would not travel UP to the filler neck. What you're seeing here is oil vapor mixed with condensation, which is why the stuff looks like a clean yellow in this bad case photo. Condensation forms because the filler cone is so high up off the engine that it stays cooler. I never see any of this in the summer, yet in the winter a small bit will form under the cap, especially if there is a long cold stretch. Pull the oil fill cap off after even a long drive in cold weather and you'll see many droplets of water forming under the cap.
Same thing happens inside the motor every time you start a cold engine. The difference is that the engine quickly gets hot enough to burn off the condensation and nothing forms. That is, unless you mess around and put lower temp thermostats in. You might think you're reducing risk of head gasket failure by running colder, but you're actually increasing water retention and inviting this mixture into your engine, especially in the winter. Run quality thinner synthetic oil and keep engine temp as designed to quickly burn off water, also don't sit and "warm" the vehicle... it's better to drive it for quicker temp raise...also cold start pushes more gas into cylinders washing off the oil with a solvent (gas).
The 4.7L has smaller oil galleys and passages, than the 5.9, which is why folks say it sludges easier, but this issue is easily combatted.
A 180* stat has nothing to do with how fast the motor gets up to its final operating temp, it is load dependent. Also, I found a 190* stat that will work and should give me what I'm after. I see the motor spiking up over 205*, not a fan of that and want to see it run between 195~200*. If I dive into the tuning and am able to control the e-fan, will swap it for the volvo fan with a custom shroud and let the ECU control it to have it kick on at 200~202* deg or so.
This graph is off the Ram, the slow rise area on the left is the time it took to get from one end of the apt complex to the exit. 5~10 mph with one short steeper climb up a hill. Once on the freeway (entrance 100~150 yards from the apt exit) the rise rate of the CT's is pretty consistent. The flat spot in the middle of the freeway run is a long downhill section, 1~1.5 miles IIRC and the truck is in neutral. The graph shows an approx 25 minute chunk of the 35~40 minute drive into work. At the end of the clip, it is still not up at operating temp. It has a 200* stat in it, front radiator most likely completely blocked since it was 35* out, electric fans in place but not ever turned on.
Last edited by steve05ram360; Oct 5, 2021 at 08:38 AM.
A 180* stat has nothing to do with how fast the motor gets up to its final operating temp, it is load dependent. Also, I found a 190* stat that will work and should give me what I'm after. I see the motor spiking up over 205*, not a fan of that and want to see it run between 195~200*. If I dive into the tuning and am able to control the e-fan, will swap it for the volvo fan with a custom shroud and let the ECU control it to have it kick on at 200~202* deg or so.
Engines need to get to 212* F for water condensation to burn off.
Engines need to get to 212* F for water condensation to burn off.
Water evaporates faster, the higher the temp, and the greater the temp difference between the water, and ambient. Wanna test that theory? Put a glass of water outside in the sun on a dry day...... the glass will slowly empty. Put the same glass of water in an oven at 180*, and the water will evaporate rather quickly......
The sludge issue can be managed and the right solution found, my thinking is to run the motor between 195~200 moving forward. If it had an iron block with iron heads, I'd run it at 200~205 if not higher. The hotter the engine, (within reason) the better the fuel economy (one of the secondary goals).
I know what worked to extend the life of the Cummins motor, which I thought 2x was on its way out, some of that knowledge will get applied to the 4.7. I already see it with the stiction eliminator in the oil which kind of surprised me. Pressure has stabilized significantly in the ~150 miles that it has been in there (according to the gauge). CT's are still up over 200*, soon I will drop in the 190* stat, yank the fan clutch and re-evaluate from there. Still have some work to do to get the warm fuzzy 300 mile day trip level. Work in progress...
I'm running stock cooling system and the temp always sits at 205 with cruising speeds, only in slow or city traffic it's going to 210-215, the electric fan comes on at 210 and i never had any problems.
Never heard the big motor fan kicking in and i'm not going for a fan delete, cause i'm worried it's get me into trouble when i pull a heavy trailer.
I'm running stock cooling system and the temp always sits at 205 with cruising speeds, only in slow or city traffic it's going to 210-215, the electric fan comes on at 210 and i never had any problems.
Never heard the big motor fan kicking in and i'm not going for a fan delete, cause i'm worried it's get me into trouble when i pull a heavy trailer.
205* with AL head... I would be loosing sleep. Keeping it lower should prevent valve seat drop and reduce the risk on the BHG failure.
If you were at all interested in going e-fan, you can keep an eye out for when I put in the volvo fan and see what I end up with. I tested its cfm and on low it draws something like 2700 cfm, 3600~3700 cfm on high, I have 2 of these on the Ram and never use the high speed.
Well.....bought this Dakota 3 years ago, have put 30.000 miles on it and never knew 205 would cause problems...
It's been always up the 205, so i thought this was normal operation temperature.
Once in summer and traffic jam it went up to 220, that's when i found the electric fan wasn't working.
What seems strange to me, even when this occurred i never heard the big fan kick in.
If i turn the fan and clutch it does feel okay.
I had a old electric fan of a Saab 900 Turbo laying around and changed it over the broken stock e-fan, tested it and as soon the temp goes up to 210 it turns on.
Every time i got of the highway and get in normal rural traffic the electric fan comes on, same if i stop for a traffic light it's always turning on because my temp is rising from 205 to 210 and sometimes 215.
I'm very interested in the e-fan set-up, i'm from the Netherlands, Europe, so Volvo fan would be easy to find over here.
Only thing i'm worried about is when towing a heavy trailer it won't cool sufficient without the big fan.
