Hello all.. I rebuilt my 5.9 as a 408. It is basically stock except for the stroker crank.. New bearings for cam, rods, crank, and a new dual roller TC. I am in the process of trying to break it in. It starts fine, revs up and down nicely, it has about 65 psi cold showing on mechanical gauge and electric coincides to it.. I went on a break in shake down cruise and everything seemed fine.. About 2 miles out, fortunately I was constantly watching gauges, the oil pressure started dropping in a linear less less until almost zero.. I was able to pull over and shut it off.. About the same time the thermostat must of opened because the water temp shot up to 190.. I let it sit for about an hour .. turned the key and OP was back .. drove it back but before got all way it started dropping again.. waited longer and same thing but this time I made it back home..

I was worried it might have something to do with either having a remote filter and lines or that I had a Fram on it.. I got a WIX filter which I mounted directly to block this time. I changed all the oil out as it had the assembly lubes etc in it and I had got over 15 min of 1st engine run in..

Second trip out at about what would be half the distance I drove 1st time I pulled into huge parking lot and did laps equal to about same amount of driving.. I then headed back and the same steady drop of OP happened and H20 temp was at 190.

I shot the engine with an IR all over the place and it was only about 160.. I checked the dipstick and it wasn't showing oil.. I added quart and started engine up to OK oil pressure.. I did some laps in our lot and it was lower 50psi (engine hot) the thermostat had opened .. I kept doing laps and it seemed to be dropping slowly.. I did all the IR stuff again .. same 160 temp .. I checked dipstick and nothing showing again.. Waited about 20 min still not showing.. About hr later it is showing and oil is at 55 psi..

So it appears the issue is that the oil is getting stuck somewhere but given the design of the heads, valley, timing cover, windage tray .. I am at a loss where it could be.. Oh and while I was doing laps in our lot I was doing figure 8 to allow for tossing oil out of valve covers back into valley and thus pan.. It does seem to finally come back and dipstick shows higher than safe since I added the extra quart.. Its not leaking or burning oil..

Any ideas... PLEASE.. no ticking/tapping, but if I drive it like this there no doubt will be..
Thank you!

 

Drive it till the oil pressure starts dropping, then pull the oil fill cap. See oil pooling in there??

Basically, I would think the heads, or valley, are the only places the oil COULD hang up.....

 

They have quite large drains so it really should be hard to get them plugged unless there is some serious debris. Did you do any machining on the block? Maybe have some steel plugging the drains. You can check the head drains pretty easy with only having to pull the valve covers.

 

What are your bearing clearances? What weight oil are you using and which filter? Did you change the oil pump? What about the pan?

I have a remote oil cooler and filter on mine. 10AN lines, I was using the Wix 51515R filter but it's getting harder to find, switched to the K&N HP-3001. Bearing clearances are 0045-0060 on the mains and 0025 on the rods. I run 20-50 oil and have 90 PSI at high cold, 60-65 at idle cold, 25 at idle hot, 45-50 at high hot using the high volume Melling pump with the high pressure spring in it. I have the Kevko oil pan as well.

Something I remember, has to do with the galley plugs behind the camshaft retainer plate. We didn't know they needed to be there. LA thrust plates were solid and had a hollow bolt to oil the chain. Magnum plates are not solid (the right side is counterbored and milled) and there should be brass "freeze plugs" in those openings. The timing chain is oiled by the large hole, which then hits the little sheetmetal diverter to hit the chain. There is also a plug that goes inside the block that isolates the supply and return side of the oil filter passages and another one that plugs the driver side oil galley in front of the distributor gear.
See: https://www.dodgetalk.com/threads/31...-plate.443849/
and https://forum.e-bodies.org/engine-tr...nstalled/2235/
and and
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WEoHsSqeFjPSopETA

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Cc95Mwb43p89Mafo9

 

Thank you for replys.. new journals and rods with new bearings plus new cam bearings so clearances should be OK.. it has good PSI and stays that way for good 15-20 min.. plus clearances IMO wouldn't cause the dipstick not to show oil after a 10 min drive.

I took videos of my rebuild.. I know the front plugs were put back in and sealed. I know the three rear ones are there.. I don't remember the one just inside by distributor but can verify it and the one just under the oil filter.. Its a new oil pump and I was careful to check clearance when setting it.. Plus like above I question if these could lead to pan not seeming to have oil returning to it (dipstick not showing).

I don't see any holes on the lower side of heads where the valves and valve springs are. There are the large oblong openings above them and the holes where pushrods go through so expect that is how oil is supposed to return to pan.. By timing chain it should just drop down into pan. I don't see it leaking anywhere and it seems to eventually be getting back (overnight).. I looked at my videos and the Felpro head gasket I used has the large opening to coincide with the ones on upper portion of heads so the gasket shouldn't be holding it in heads..

I'm stumped but thanks for your replies.. I'm going to try a couple more short drives. I'll look at pulling cap off but when I did to add a quart this last time there is a baffle in the way that doesn't allow seeing much.. It wasn't soaking in oil.

I wondered if the oil might be getting aerated but the pan has the stock windage tray and I'm not running it at high rpms..

 

That one is a real puzzler..... I am rather curious about what is going on there. If you discover anything, be sure and update the thread.

 

You kept the factory dipstick that goes into the timing cover?

And yes, oil drains back at the front and back of the heads, and along the top crest.

Notice on mine that we polished the valley to help the oil drain back. Probably 4-5 hours of work with a die grinder with carbide and sand roll bits. But this gives you a good idea of where the oil accumulates in the valley. Note the tiny return hole between the lifters on holes 4 and 6. The only other escape is the distributor gear opening in the back and the timing chain oiling holes in the front.

The Kevko pan ( https://kevkoracing.com/collections/...nt=45661933838 ) is spec'd at 6 quarts total with a standard size filter. I have about 30 inches of 10AN PTFE hose total from the block to the oil filter to the cooler and back to the block, which holds 5 ounces. The cooler is a Derale 52578, which holds 16 ounces of fluid. The HP-3008 holds about 3/4 of a quart. That's 5/8 of a quart in the cooler and lines. I put 7 total in the engine. If the pump is cavitating from low level when running, I don't know about it.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CSNwXXDfLJtVhhwRA



https://photos.app.goo.gl/777G4MGRbE9xucvj7



https://photos.app.goo.gl/Y1nbZn55JkDByiTH7

 

I am rather curious about what is going on there. If you discover anything, be sure and update the thread
.. Will Do.
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You kept the factory dipstick that goes into the timing cover?
... Yes though I saw if you try to order them there are two.. one for 4x4 Dakota's and one for 2wd Dakotas ??
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And yes, oil drains back at the front and back of the heads, and along the top crest.
Note the tiny return hole between the lifters on holes 4 and 6.
The only other escape is the distributor gear opening in the back and the timing chain oiling holes in the front.
... Do my arrows show where you mean by the lifter holes and the two in front toward timing chain?


Oil Return Options

I did replace the simple timing chain bracket plate with a larger one that includes a spring loaded timing chain tensioner (Mopar part). I could see it maybe hanging up some oil for a few seconds but not much more than that since its vertical and not horizontal in design.

Thanks.

 

Your assumptions are all correct. 4WD have a different oil pan that shapes around the front differential, so the dipstick is a bit different (same capacity, but smaller cross section, so fluid level is higher). And those are the correct holes you identified.

for the dipstick to be completely dry...this just makes no sense. The FSM says a 5.2 or 5.9 holds 5 quarts. With a remote oil filter and cooler, It should be a 5.5-6 quart system. On these engines, it doesn't hurt to be a little high. As you can see in my photos, the oil pools up in the valley, but even if you left the factory rough casting, I can't see it holding even a quart up there.

The cam thrust plate with tensioner really doesn't do much unless you had the engine line honed and/or the caps or casting fly cut. But it doesn't hurt anything.

What oil weight and blend are you running? I run 20-50 but that's because of the large crank clearances. 10-30 or 10-40 should be fine, but it's possible that it's not draining back due to the thick oil and rough casting? Granted no oil should truly be thick at 120+ degrees.

TDLR; I'm still puzzled at your situation. Literally the valley is the only place it could be accumulating oil.

....... You did mention you left the "windage tray" in the factory pan. Again I find it slightly ridiculous, but not impossible that somehow it's restricting flow back to the sump?

 

I had taken video of the rebuild but the one oil galley plug next to the distributor I didn't show as having replaced.. Yesterday, its fairly easy and just for peace of mind, I pulled the distributor and made sure it was there. It was.. I did it for the peace of mind but my logic was the normal oil flow through the engine isn't a lot of volume but more PSI so if it were not there maybe oil was flowing up faster than it could drain down.. I know I know but quite frankly this whole thing makes no sense to me..

I checked and while the 4WD and the 2WD use different pan #'s the photos look almost identical to me..
The dipstick tube is the same #.
The dipsticks themselves are two different #'s .. I may order the 4WD just to compare its fairly cheap (I know hard to believe) from Mopar.============================================ =====
My Vehicle: 2001 Dodge Dakota 8 Cyl 5.9L Magnum SMPI; 4-Speed Automatic Transm Quad Cab 4WD

Mopar 53020914AB Pan-Engine Oi
1998-2003 Mopar 53020914AB

Mopar 53021355AA Indicator-Engine Oil Level
1999-2003 Mopar 53021355AA

Mopar 53020926 Tube-Oil Gauge
1997-2003 Mopar 53020926

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My Vehicle: 2001 Dodge Dakota 8 Cyl 5.9L Magnum SMPI; 4-Speed Automatic Transmi Club Cab 2WD

Mopar 53020914AB Pan-Engine Oil
1998-2003 Mopar 53020914AB

Mopar 53021354AA Indicator-Engine Oil Level
1999-2003 Mopar 53021354AA

Mopar 53020926 Tube-Oil Gauge
1997-2003 Mopar 53020926
Tomorrow I'm going to remove oil filter and like the galley plug by distributor just make sure the one under oil filter on block is seated.
I already redid the hardline from engine to mechanical oil pressure gauge in case something flukey was going on there.. This since when I read the codes there wasn't any stored codes for bad oil pressure or sending unit itself.