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Thanks for the words of encouragement, fellas. Learning a lot for sure.
Today I learned why the sprockets look so different and have a different tooth count. The Cloyes kit I received uses roller style secondary chains (main chain is still inverted tooth), vs the inverted tooth style, which is what my truck has for all three timing chains. Chrysler made the updates later on the 4.7. Here you can see what I mean. The old chains are on the right.
Now since I'm changing everything over, it should work but one problem. They also updated the secondary timing chain guides to have pivoting bushings in them. Mine just has holes, thru which there are torx bolts. The torx bolts don't fit thru the new bushings, so again, I packed it up for the day. Will call Cloyes tomorrow and see if they can send me some proper bushings (they pop out).
Fished out about three more large pieces of the plastic guides that broke apart. Do you think these were at end of life? Incredibly, the chains look to be in really great shape, just not the guides.
As dirty looking as this engine is on the inside, it has great compression in all cylinders and lots of power. The old owner wasn't really good with oil habits but I went full syn once I got it and kept up with it. Wish I had a new oil pump to go on right now but I'm thinking this old one will soldier on. BTW, this thing fights me every step of the way. I had to use a three jaw puller to get the small sprocket off the crank, while they just slide it off by hand in the youtube videos. LOL
Last edited by Dodgevity; Nov 2, 2025 at 06:58 PM.
I've got news for you, the videos are often taken on the second, third or even more tries. You don't think all those DIY shows like Powernation go THAT well all the time do you? They get things loose, then start the camera. What you're doing with the different type chains and such is updating the engine. Personally, I'd replace the oil pump while it's apart. With all the garbage you're fishing out, I'd still advise dropping the pan so you KNOW it's clean.
The updated chains for instance will remove a LOT of friction points. Roller chains roll with oil while angular points squeeze the oil out and produce drag. I'm not a fan of the 4.7 as I feel it could have been a much better engine than the initial units were. Unless I get something fairly new, I don't fool with much later than 2000-2002 or so. My old Expedition had the 2 valve engine and was a solid old truck. The three valves were not all that good.
I've got news for you, the videos are often taken on the second, third or even more tries. You don't think all those DIY shows like Powernation go THAT well all the time do you? They get things loose, then start the camera. What you're doing with the different type chains and such is updating the engine. Personally, I'd replace the oil pump while it's apart. With all the garbage you're fishing out, I'd still advise dropping the pan so you KNOW it's clean.
The updated chains for instance will remove a LOT of friction points. Roller chains roll with oil while angular points squeeze the oil out and produce drag. I'm not a fan of the 4.7 as I feel it could have been a much better engine than the initial units were. Unless I get something fairly new, I don't fool with much later than 2000-2002 or so. My old Expedition had the 2 valve engine and was a solid old truck. The three valves were not all that good.
Yeah, I'm sure they do a lot behind the scenes. The 4.7L has a reputation sort of like the way Dodge gets trashed for reliability. We know better though. That's sort of like how it's been for me. This thing has almost 350K mi on it and only had the valve covers off so far, till now. With the most basic care, the 4.7 can last a very long time. It's just not an engine you want to trash or overheat a lot.
Yeah, I'm sure they do a lot behind the scenes. The 4.7L has a reputation sort of like the way Dodge gets trashed for reliability. We know better though. That's sort of like how it's been for me. This thing has almost 350K mi on it and only had the valve covers off so far, till now. With the most basic care, the 4.7 can last a very long time. It's just not an engine you want to trash or overheat a lot.
If you do NOTHING else, change the oil reliably, and it is truly amazing how long an engine will last.....
When I was trying to remove the sprocket with the tone ring, I tried doing it manually by gripping the camshaft with a vice grip and using a wrench. Well, the spring pressure caused it to roll anti-clockwise from the 12:00 to the 10:00 position. The "V8" is supposed to be at 12:00 in the pic. I wised up and pulled it and the rest with an impact wrench instead. I tried rolling it back but it's hard as hell to move. That's going to be a problem when I go to put the sprocket on. I'm going to remove the spark plugs on that side, to see if that will make things easier. If you guys have any other ideas, I'd appreciate them.
Spoke with Cloyes and they said I had the wrong timing set. The roller chains are for the later iterations of the 4.7 (2008 and up Dakota). At first they tried to tell me the tone wheel was different too, but the guy admitted that he got that wrong, once I sent him the pics. So it seems the roller chains and sprockets are the big difference. The bolts for the secondary guides are different too, due to the pivoting bushing. Well, I guess I'll consider this an upgrade then. I looked up the 08 guide bolts and they are ten bucks each + ship, LOL. I googled the bolt specs and got these from Autozone for five bucks, so I'm good there.
On another front. I didn't have anything remotely large enough to put on this red crankshaft seal, so I could tap it into the timing cover. Well I had an idea and it worked. I put the seal in the fridge and let the sun beat on the timing cover in the bed of the truck for a few hours. A little oil and it slipped right in and bottomed out by hand.
Incredibly, the chains look to be in really great shape, just not the guides.
