Hey, guys. Got a 2003 Dodge Neon SXT, automatic transmission. 66k original miles. Have had the car for 9.5 years and has been one of the best investments I've ever made in my life!

But recently, I had an issue. Here's the story...it's somewhat interesting and semi-comical. Haha

I was heading out of town and was low on fuel. As I pulled into the station that I've been filling up at for years just down the street from the house, my low fuel light came on. No big deal, I'm at the filling station. Well, their credit card readers were down. I had some cash but I didn't want to be bothered with having to go inside and then go back for my change and all that. Since my light had JUST came on, I knew that I could make it to the next station that was on my way out of town. I made it there; now quite low on fuel. But I made it. Filled up with fuel and then made it a couple miles from the station and the car did NOT want to go up the hill I was climbing. Thought it was very strange and I cancelled the cruise control. Made it up the hill, got up speed going down the hill, but the engine was running rough. So I stomped the gas pedal to the floor. It was choppy and rough but was gaining speed. It didn't want to, but it was. Still quite rough and not leveling out, I let off again. Then stomped the pedal again. It was getting worse...losing more and more power and speed. So I pulled over onto the shoulder. Engine was still running. Revved it a bit while in Park and then let off and the engine died. And it would NOT start back up. Truly felt like it was fuel related, especially considering I'd just filled up at a station I don't recall ever filling up at before. Tried a couple more times to start it and it wasn't hitting a lick - cranking, but not attempting to start. So I called my sister and had her go to my house and get my pickup and come rescue me. After going out of town and taking care of some stuff, I got hold of my buddy and recruited his help to come with me and get my flat bed trailer and go and load my car up. Took an extra battery and a jump-box and an electric winch. Got out there, pulled the schrader valve cap off and while I cycled the key several times, my buddy caught the fuel coming out of the fuel rail in a cup. It was gray-ish in color. Ah ha....bad gas. What a relief! And because we brought the winch and all that we didn't need any of it, of course....because the car started up!! Wasn't running great, but it started and we drove it onto the trailer under it's own power. Stopped by the fuel station I'd filled up at and told them what had happened. At this point I was the only one that had complained of bad gas and it's a pretty busy station right on a major highway. Gave me a phone number to call. So we got my car back to my house and I figured on driving the pickup until I got the fuel tank drained. Couple of days go by and I had some time to drain the tank. Pulled the schrader valve core out and rigged up a hose from the fuel rail going to a 5gal bucket and was gonna use the fuel pump to pump the fuel out of the tank. After pumping about two gallons out of the tank, all that I'd pumped looked like perfectly good fuel....nothing like what I'd gotten out of the fuel rail when my car was on the side of the road. So I put everything back together and took the car for a drive. It drove just fine!!! So I thought that I must've ran the tank so low that it sucked all the trash off the bottom of the tank and into the fuel system but now all that stuff had settled back to the bottom of the tank. I've been driving the car ever since and it's been several weeks now. It's been driving ok, but it has been getting harder and harder to start. I've ran three tank loads of BG 44K fuel system cleaner through it (~$15 per can) and it hasn't seemed to make a difference. Also, I replaced the factory fuel pump regulator. Neither have seemed to have made a difference and now it is harder to start than ever. There has been a couple times that I've begged and pleaded with the car for it to start.

So that's my story. What can I do next to get this thing back to where it starts after only a couple seconds of cranking rather than 15-20 seconds of cranking? In 9.5 years and ~60k miles worth of driving this car in all conditions, it has never been like this.....not since it had the fuel episode that it had. Surely it's related to that, right???

Thanks, ya'll!

 

Welcome to the 2nd Gen Neon forum.
Have you checked for trouble code clues, in case you have more than one problem? If so, post All code Numbers
Have you checked fuel pressure & flow rate over time?
Have you tried cycling the fuel pump on several times Before cranking for a start, to see it'll make a difference in how quick it'll fire up & run.
Does it seem to have its usual power at highway speeds & when climbing a grade, or when going at throttle-up to pass?

 

Thanks :-)

PO456 - Evaporative Emissions System Small Leak Detected
PO440 - Evaporative Emission Control System Malfunction
PO340 - Camshaft Position Sensor Circuit Malfunction

This is very interesting. 440 and 456 have been there for years. Not as frequent as they are now, but I've had those coming around for years. Used to the codes would come, I'd erase them and it would be 3-6 months later that they would come back. I used to clear them 2-3 times per year and it wasn't a big deal. Now as soon as I clear them, they come back in a day or two or instantly; so I've given up on clearing them and just deal with the CEL. However, the camshaft position sensor is definitely, definitely something new. And I see from a brief tour online that it can cause a hard start. That could be my whole problem!

Haven't checked fuel pressure as I do not have the equipment to do so.

I've tried cycling the key on and off before starting and that doesn't seem to make a difference. Unless I turn the key to Run and wait a few seconds before it starting, it takes 4-5 seconds of cranking before the engine starts. It has been that way for 9.5 years and I've just dealt with it. I was excited when I replaced the fuel pump regulator thinking that that would fix that. I was bummed when it was still the exact same as before.

I haven't really noticed a loss of power or any other troubles. Mostly just with starting.

So is it just a coincidence that I started having these troubles after my fuel incident? Or is it related? Should I just get a new camshaft sensor and solder it in and see what it does? EDIT: Oops. Just watched a YouTube video on how to change it out....guess there's no soldering involved.....which is good, because I suck at it. lol

I've cleared the DTCs and I will see how soon they come back.

Thanks for the help!

 

Best not to begin tossing parts at a problem & hope for joy, without taking the time to perform a proper trouble shoot as suggested above. It may be something obvious & simple to repair, or it might be the cam sensor, or the computer, but that's not as likely. Try the suggested wiggle & thump tests, wiring run insulation inspection & let us know how it goes. Make sure the sensor fasteners are in place & properly torqued up.
Once you get the cam circuit problem put right, try a home made smoke test to check for vapor recovery system plumbing leaks, like dry-rotted hoses, loose fittings, faulty gas cap seal, etc.
You can blow some "Swisher Sweets" cigar smoke into a loosened vapor recovery vacuum line & watch, or sniff for leaks. More thoughts for consideration, let us know what you find.

 

Just now having a chance to post back. I've yet to do any of your suggested tests...work has been running us ragged. But I did want to mention that after about 3-4 days of driving approximately 100 miles total, the CEL came back on. PO 440 and 456. But no camshaft circuit problem. Haven't had any times where I really wasn't sure if the car was going to start or not. Still hasn't started super well, but nothing that has "scared" me. lol Also, every once in a while on startup, the engine idles really low and rough (in Park) for several seconds and then spikes in RPM and smooths out....then it does perfectly fine.

Anyway, that's what little update I have to share.

I'll do some more tests when I get a chance. I got some hand-rolled cigars when I went on vacation to Florida earlier this year. Will be a good reason to smoke one. :-D

Thanks

 

On the P0456 small evap system leak code, have a read here on trouble shooting it. https://www.obd-codes.com/p0456
If you have, can borrow, or come by the inexpensive but powerful ELM scan tool & running a good diagnostic software on the viewing device of your choice, as suggested in the link, it might be able to narrow down where to look by being able to monitor the evap system pressure sensor output, or cycling the purge valve, while doing your smoke test. Since its a long standing problem, I'd have a good look at the gas cap rubber seal & the fill tube seal surface for damage that could corrupt a tight seal. If you've smelled gas fumes anywhere around the vehicle, that would be a good area to begin the search. Look for something simple like the cap seal, then look for dry rotted vapor recovery hoses or loose fittings.
Think back to when the codes first began showing up, was it right after some "event"?
Keep us posted on your trouble shoot.

 

Hey, guys; just wanted to give an [overdue] update.

I've yet to investigate the evap. codes as of yet. Surprise, surprise. lol However, I did finally get to have one of my cigars! Went to an outdoor concert a few weeks back and brought one with me. It was good!

Anyway, my cam. circuit malfunction... It was becoming more frequent that my car was taking 15-20 seconds of cranking to get it start. After the umpteenth time I got a very disapproving look from my girlfriend when it wouldn't start right away I finally ordered a camshaft interrupter magnet and a cam. position sensor. lol PO340 was coming around more frequently and I had also been having some troubles with my cruise control. Finally figured out that when PO340 was active that it knocked out my cruise. I use the cruise control every time I drive my car. So anyway, I installed the interrupter magnet, the position sensor, replaced all four spark plugs, changed the oil and filter (using fully synthetic oil like always) replaced a burned out blinker bulb, recharged the K&N air cleaner, and changed out a bad tire (cords were showing lol). Car should be in tip top shape, right? Well, in doing all this....the car hasn't taken more than a few seconds of cranking for the engine to start. Good. However, now PO340 code is now present CONSTANTLY. I can clear it and it's back as soon as the engine starts....and the cruise doesn't work whatsoever...not even for a second. So I don't know if I've made any improvements or not. My girlfriend says that I have because I can live without cruise control just as long as the car starts. LOL Doing some (very brief) research I read that on the Neon the VSS and camshaft position sensor share the same wiring and sometimes the VSS being bad can cause a PO340 code. That may be my next task. I'm not ready to give up my Neon!!!

Thanks, guys

 

Since you seem to like doing your own diagnostics & wrench turning, you can go here & look up wiring pictorials, color codes & TSB's at no cost. http://www.bbbind.com/free-tsb