what gun/rifle do you have
Professional
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 142
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
I would advise against birdshot for HD purposes.
Go with a 00 buckshot at least.
Birdshot for self defense
Insofar as self defense is concerned, I do not consider birdshot to be effective, and this opinion is shared by many other people. The reason is simple: To stop an attacker right away, before they can kill or seriously injure you, you must disrupt their vital organ(s). The small birdshot pellets are unable to penetrate an attacker deeply enough to reach a vital organ. Birdshot will cause a painful and messy looking wound, but it simply won’t reach the vital organs. Some people will argue that at close range, birdshot is “like a solid column of lead”, but this is not the case either. While it is true that the pellets are close together and nearly touching, they will still behave as individual pellets as they penetrate the target, and ballistic gel testing demonstrates this. The birdshot, even at extremely close range, will only penetrate about 6 inches of ballistic gel, while penetration of 12 inches of ballistic gel is generally considered the minimum effective depth to stop an attacker. With birdshot, the attacker may well be fatally wounded, but in the many minutes or hours it takes before the attacker succumbs to their wounds, they still can kill you or a loved one. That is why I generally recommend at least 00 buckshot for self defense, when using a shotgun.
Insofar as self defense is concerned, I do not consider birdshot to be effective, and this opinion is shared by many other people. The reason is simple: To stop an attacker right away, before they can kill or seriously injure you, you must disrupt their vital organ(s). The small birdshot pellets are unable to penetrate an attacker deeply enough to reach a vital organ. Birdshot will cause a painful and messy looking wound, but it simply won’t reach the vital organs. Some people will argue that at close range, birdshot is “like a solid column of lead”, but this is not the case either. While it is true that the pellets are close together and nearly touching, they will still behave as individual pellets as they penetrate the target, and ballistic gel testing demonstrates this. The birdshot, even at extremely close range, will only penetrate about 6 inches of ballistic gel, while penetration of 12 inches of ballistic gel is generally considered the minimum effective depth to stop an attacker. With birdshot, the attacker may well be fatally wounded, but in the many minutes or hours it takes before the attacker succumbs to their wounds, they still can kill you or a loved one. That is why I generally recommend at least 00 buckshot for self defense, when using a shotgun.
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,480
Likes: 4,223
From: Clayton MI
Birdshot won't make it thru the wall. (unless you are VERY close) However, it WILL give anyone you shoot at something to think about. Provided they are even capable of thinking after you fire. (dead, panicked, or simply RUNNING away from you.)
Grand Champion
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,971
Likes: 45
From: MAINE
I got a winchester 30/30 bolt action with original leather case from the 70's and has a 3 shot clip...mint gun was fired once before i got it
Have a basic 20 guage single shot i use for bird hunting
Basic 4/10 my wife will use for birdhunting
My dad has 3 gun cases filled with guns and some of them are really old an rare cuz he inheirited some guns from my grandfather when he passed away
Have a basic 20 guage single shot i use for bird hunting
Basic 4/10 my wife will use for birdhunting
My dad has 3 gun cases filled with guns and some of them are really old an rare cuz he inheirited some guns from my grandfather when he passed away
Legend
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 8,025
Likes: 72
From: orangeville ontario
HammerZ71 has a pretty nice one for his truck. i think he has said they might fit in the 2nd gens.
https://dodgeforum.com/forum/2651852-post26.html
https://dodgeforum.com/forum/2651852-post26.html
Professional
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
From: Baton Rouge, LA
00 buck will blow thru a wall like it isn't even there. That is a hazard to everyone else in the house, and, might give you pause to pull the trigger when you REALLY should. Not a good scene. Shooting one of your family members on the other side of the wall would really suck.....
Birdshot won't make it thru the wall. (unless you are VERY close) However, it WILL give anyone you shoot at something to think about. Provided they are even capable of thinking after you fire. (dead, panicked, or simply RUNNING away from you.)
Birdshot won't make it thru the wall. (unless you are VERY close) However, it WILL give anyone you shoot at something to think about. Provided they are even capable of thinking after you fire. (dead, panicked, or simply RUNNING away from you.)
As should anyone who has a firearm for self/home defense. Just going to the range doesn't really help. It really only lets you get familiar with your weapon. Pressure drills are what most people don't do.
To each their own though. Just hope it never has to come down to it.
Administrator
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,480
Likes: 4,223
From: Clayton MI
And that's why I train.
As should anyone who has a firearm for self/home defense. Just going to the range doesn't really help. It really only lets you get familiar with your weapon. Pressure drills are what most people don't do.
To each their own though. Just hope it never has to come down to it.
As should anyone who has a firearm for self/home defense. Just going to the range doesn't really help. It really only lets you get familiar with your weapon. Pressure drills are what most people don't do.
To each their own though. Just hope it never has to come down to it.
Now THERE is a sentiment I can wholeheartedly agree with.
Record Breaker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,140
Likes: 3
From: Fredericksburg, VA
you're saying that 6" of penetration through ballistics gel (which is suppose to replicate human flesh) isnt enough? i've had this discussion before and it depends on what kind of environment you're looking to defend. If i had a house full of family, using a shotgun to defend it, i'd be more apt at using birdshot than buckshot. HeyYou is right...i'd be worried about over penetration. and lets face it, you can do all the training in the world, (been there done that) and nothing will ever prepare you for that first time you're staring face to face with someone with a gun in their hand. you dont really have time to think about what is beyond the target in front of you. you can train for muscle memory all you want, but once that situation happens, it all happens so fast, by the time you look at him, stop, think about what is behind him, then move in whatever direction you need to, he will have already shot you. do you think he cares whats behind YOU? nope. none.
regardless, heres my arsenal:
S&W 1911 .45 (carry piece)
EAA witness .45
DPMS AR-15 5.56
Yugo SKS 7.62x39 w/ tapco furniture
Mossberg 500 12ga (yea it might be flimsy and feel cheap, but that gun will take a beating a thousand times over and still go boom when i need it to)
Savage .22lr
regardless, heres my arsenal:
S&W 1911 .45 (carry piece)
EAA witness .45
DPMS AR-15 5.56
Yugo SKS 7.62x39 w/ tapco furniture
Mossberg 500 12ga (yea it might be flimsy and feel cheap, but that gun will take a beating a thousand times over and still go boom when i need it to)
Savage .22lr
Last edited by wjxavier; Aug 2, 2012 at 08:45 AM.