Long tubes vs. shorties
#11
07-06-2007, 11:57 AM
#12
07-06-2007, 12:14 PM
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RE: Long tubes vs. shorties
As you know, they all work together, so that's a hard Q for anyone. I would say the one thing you can do by itself to notice a big difference is the M1 flash. It will learn the set-up you have now, and will learn the cam + intake manifold when you do those.
Do you know if the Indy came with torque management burnt into the pcm?
BTW, If I were you, I would definately pay attention to what comes of that Hughes intake before you drop any cash on a manifold. Just my opinion
Do you know if the Indy came with torque management burnt into the pcm?
BTW, If I were you, I would definately pay attention to what comes of that Hughes intake before you drop any cash on a manifold. Just my opinion
#13
07-06-2007, 01:07 PM
RE: Long tubes vs. shorties
ORIGINAL: mopowar
As you know, they all work together, so that's a hard Q for anyone. I would say the one thing you can do by itself to notice a big difference is the M1 flash. It will learn the set-up you have now, and will learn the cam + intake manifold when you do those.
Do you know if the Indy came with torque management burnt into the pcm?
BTW, If I were you, I would definately pay attention to what comes of that Hughes intake before you drop any cash on a manifold. Just my opinion
As you know, they all work together, so that's a hard Q for anyone. I would say the one thing you can do by itself to notice a big difference is the M1 flash. It will learn the set-up you have now, and will learn the cam + intake manifold when you do those.
Do you know if the Indy came with torque management burnt into the pcm?
BTW, If I were you, I would definately pay attention to what comes of that Hughes intake before you drop any cash on a manifold. Just my opinion
idk if there is torque management, if they all did i would assume it would as well
yea, whats the big diff, just the 4bbl > 2bbl conversion? btw whats that whole bracket thing?
#14
07-06-2007, 01:44 PM
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RE: Long tubes vs. shorties
I ran the M1 flash with the kegger on there with positive results. I think Silver Dodge iscurrently running it with the kegger.I think I may have had 1.7's and a K&N on there at the time. It's hard to remember now. It was many many mods ago. Anyway, you can see most of the mods I have now in my sig, and I'm still running the same old M1 flash.
It looks like, the bracket is for the fuel rails.
It looks like, the bracket is for the fuel rails.
#15
07-06-2007, 01:52 PM
RE: Long tubes vs. shorties
ORIGINAL: mopowar
These headers rock. After the 20-25 mods I've done to this truck, this one is definitely in the top 5. I say that knowing that this is what my combo was screaming for. It may not have carried the same weight a year ago, but this one is up there as far as bang for the buck goes. I was skeptical when Marty over at Krc said that they picked up 33ft./lbs, but now I believe him. My rear wheels are hopping and spinning all over the place. When I make a turn from a stop ~1/2 throttle spins them.
An interesting aside that has been discussed here many times:
After unsuccessfullycalling around looking for a coupling to get me to the exhaust shop, I said f-it and drove it there the way it was. It was God awful loud. I took it to a shop that does a lot of race cars in the area. Thehead honcholet me hang outside/in the bay door while he was working on my truck. I struck up a conversation about back pressure, hp, and tq as it pertains to exhaust systems. He said that it is not so much the pipe size within reason as it is the layout.
Basically he said you start big, and get smaller as you move away from the headers. He said alot of guys complain about loss of power and torque because they come in with the factory y going into the factory cat, and then want big pipe from there back. He essentially said that this ruins the flow and scavenging ability of the whole system. The exhaust gas is hottest (and expansive)when itcomes out of the heads. It then cools (and condenses)as it moves through the system, so, if you havesmall manifolds and and a small y pipe moving expanded hot exhaust gas that dumps into a large pipe and cools, the flow velocity is lost.
It was pretty interesting. He was a ford guy though. He had a 90 somethingmustangrunning in the 9's and a seventy something running 8's. He had an article out of Hot Rod on the wall spotlighting the 70's mustang
These headers rock. After the 20-25 mods I've done to this truck, this one is definitely in the top 5. I say that knowing that this is what my combo was screaming for. It may not have carried the same weight a year ago, but this one is up there as far as bang for the buck goes. I was skeptical when Marty over at Krc said that they picked up 33ft./lbs, but now I believe him. My rear wheels are hopping and spinning all over the place. When I make a turn from a stop ~1/2 throttle spins them.
An interesting aside that has been discussed here many times:
After unsuccessfullycalling around looking for a coupling to get me to the exhaust shop, I said f-it and drove it there the way it was. It was God awful loud. I took it to a shop that does a lot of race cars in the area. Thehead honcholet me hang outside/in the bay door while he was working on my truck. I struck up a conversation about back pressure, hp, and tq as it pertains to exhaust systems. He said that it is not so much the pipe size within reason as it is the layout.
Basically he said you start big, and get smaller as you move away from the headers. He said alot of guys complain about loss of power and torque because they come in with the factory y going into the factory cat, and then want big pipe from there back. He essentially said that this ruins the flow and scavenging ability of the whole system. The exhaust gas is hottest (and expansive)when itcomes out of the heads. It then cools (and condenses)as it moves through the system, so, if you havesmall manifolds and and a small y pipe moving expanded hot exhaust gas that dumps into a large pipe and cools, the flow velocity is lost.
It was pretty interesting. He was a ford guy though. He had a 90 somethingmustangrunning in the 9's and a seventy something running 8's. He had an article out of Hot Rod on the wall spotlighting the 70's mustang
#16
07-06-2007, 03:56 PM
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RE: Long tubes vs. shorties
But you weren't there....... jk. There has been alot of debate on this forum and many others about exhaust pipe sizingand back pressure as it pertains to low end torque. The point (his answer to this question) is that yes, if you go from a little 2" y into a 3" pipe into a cat...... and then back down to 2.5" or 2.25" ,or measurements aside, small> big> small it screws the velocity up and, therefore, screws thelow end scavenging ability of the system.
#17
07-06-2007, 05:24 PM
RE: Long tubes vs. shorties
ORIGINAL: mopowar
.......He said alot of guys complain about loss of power and torque because they come in with the factory y going into the factory cat, and then want big pipe from there back. He essentially said that this ruins the flow and scavenging ability of the whole system. The exhaust gas is hottest (and expansive)when itcomes out of the heads. It then cools (and condenses)as it moves through the system, so, if you havesmall manifolds and and a small y pipe moving expanded hot exhaust gas that dumps into a large pipe and cools, the flow velocity is lost.
.......He said alot of guys complain about loss of power and torque because they come in with the factory y going into the factory cat, and then want big pipe from there back. He essentially said that this ruins the flow and scavenging ability of the whole system. The exhaust gas is hottest (and expansive)when itcomes out of the heads. It then cools (and condenses)as it moves through the system, so, if you havesmall manifolds and and a small y pipe moving expanded hot exhaust gas that dumps into a large pipe and cools, the flow velocity is lost.
I have been waiting a long time for a discussion like this. Hopefully, there will be some definitive facts on the manifold that produces the most low end torque and this thread won't fade away like the Viper rockers thread. ( I tried to revive it several times but couldn't even with my cpr training)
[sm=icon_rofl.gif]
#18
07-06-2007, 05:41 PM
Grand Champion
#19
07-06-2007, 06:23 PM
RE: Long tubes vs. shorties
Someone posted an article from a dyno test with a variable exhaust restrictor to test the relation of back pressure to torque and I recall there was minimal effect on torque. If remember several posts from people who installed Flowmaster exhausts (if I searched long enough I could find them) and they claimed better low end torque. I'll bet there are people that believe that less exhaust restriction in general means more torque. I have been reading posts and doing searches for months trying to get some concrete info about what causes an engine to have more torque around 2000rpm. There have been articles posted, opinions, and theories. It has been very interesting reading.
Analogy: changing from 3:55 gears to 4.10 will allow faster acceleration. And removing the muffler will make the exhaust louder. Also, most "performance" parts in general increase power and torque above 3000-4000rpm.
It just seems to me there should be a group of "torque improvement" parts, so you bolt on "this" and it does "that" like with the gears.
Analogy: changing from 3:55 gears to 4.10 will allow faster acceleration. And removing the muffler will make the exhaust louder. Also, most "performance" parts in general increase power and torque above 3000-4000rpm.
It just seems to me there should be a group of "torque improvement" parts, so you bolt on "this" and it does "that" like with the gears.
#20
07-06-2007, 08:08 PM
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RE: Long tubes vs. shorties
ORIGINAL: lv360ram
Someone posted an article from a dyno test with a variable exhaust restrictor to test the relation of back pressure to torque and I recall there was minimal effect on torque. If remember several posts from people who installed Flowmaster exhausts (if I searched long enough I could find them) and they claimed better low end torque. I'll bet there are people that believe that less exhaust restriction in general means more torque. I have been reading posts and doing searches for months trying to get some concrete info about what causes an engine to have more torque around 2000rpm. There have been articles posted, opinions, and theories. It has been very interesting reading.
Analogy: changing from 3:55 gears to 4.10 will allow faster acceleration. And removing the muffler will make the exhaust louder. Also, most "performance" parts in general increase power and torque above 3000-4000rpm.
It just seems to me there should be a group of "torque improvement" parts, so you bolt on "this" and it does "that" like with the gears.
Someone posted an article from a dyno test with a variable exhaust restrictor to test the relation of back pressure to torque and I recall there was minimal effect on torque. If remember several posts from people who installed Flowmaster exhausts (if I searched long enough I could find them) and they claimed better low end torque. I'll bet there are people that believe that less exhaust restriction in general means more torque. I have been reading posts and doing searches for months trying to get some concrete info about what causes an engine to have more torque around 2000rpm. There have been articles posted, opinions, and theories. It has been very interesting reading.
Analogy: changing from 3:55 gears to 4.10 will allow faster acceleration. And removing the muffler will make the exhaust louder. Also, most "performance" parts in general increase power and torque above 3000-4000rpm.
It just seems to me there should be a group of "torque improvement" parts, so you bolt on "this" and it does "that" like with the gears.
Could you post up some pics of them actually installed. I'm interested to see what path they take to make them work on a 4x4.
Hell,wait just a minute.