I remember when I tried getting a camshaft put into my neon, guys were quoting me from $900-1200 to have one installed. They also said that while they were in there it was smart to get bigger pistons, new valve srings and retainers etc. SO I got kind of overwhelmed and just said forget about it. It's something I still want though. Only this time I'm dealing with a 5.9L v8 as opposed to a 2.0L 4 banger. I've seen what camshafts do, they are awesome. And who can't resist that sound of a ideling camshaft, sounds like a damn cigarrette boat. I consider cams because I think once I have the longtube headers in this x-mas, and then the cold air intake kit, the truck will be at that stage for the next level. So heres my question, is it tough putting a camshaft in on one of these trucks? It's not really something I'd feel comfortable doing, I'm not trained enough, and I don't want to mess anything up. What should I expect for quotes to have one installed. Also, who makes good cams for these trucks, and what one should I get? What perfrmance gains should I anticipate as well? Hope that isn't too many questions there haha, but I'm curious. Unless you guys think its a stupid idea, I'll bag it, but I think this truck with a performance camshaft would be insane, I'd love to waste some more ppl lol.

 

It really is not that hard to do yourself. Hell of a lot cheaper. Just get in there and do it. I built my first motor in my driveway with a Haynes manual. There are a couple things you can accomplish by putting in a cam. One is that you can change the timing chain, depending on your miles, but would not hurt anyway. Two, you can mod your kegger and do a Hughes plenum install. If you get stuck all you have to do is ask. There are plenty of guys here to help. You can even do a rocker upgrade.

By the way those "guys" were fishing for a payday. You can do a cam swap without going extreme. Lifters and pushrods are a must.

 

a cam is a nice idea .. with that said here is what you gotta take off to change the cam .. rad , water pump , timming chain cover , timming chain , the keg , heads to take the lifters out mite as well get the heads reworked or go with different heads . now if you just want little more hp with the cam lope sound just drop in some 1.7 RR.. Or just take the motor out and rebuild it from top to bottom , bore 30 over stroke it , then you gotta look at the computer work thats needs done to the PCM .. As you see you just cant stop at the cam keeps going and going and going...This is how i look at doing things im doing my tb , 1.7 RR
then im jumping to my gears this spring then next spring is the motor following spring is the trans.. You gotta have a plan.. rome wasnt bult in a day..

 

If you are doing a cam, stay away from 1.7s like padodgeram said, no offence, but there is really no point. I suggest going with the same setup im looking at if you have long tube headers. otherwise go to summit and look for cams for our truck, and check out the "210/220" duration cam that would probabily be more suited for factory manifolds. Also, I would suggest investing in a throttle body if you dont have one yet. Porting the factory kegger would help. I would advise against the M1 simply because you need to rev quite high to get any advantage from it. In mostapplications it will hurt performance. The cheepest you can get away with a cam swap is: Cam, lifters, pushrods, computer, and all the gaskets nessissary AND doing it yourself. You wont get a shop to do it for less than a grand. so all in all about $700-800 if you do it yourself. The gains will be quite worth it IMO. Check out my cam thread, and you should learn a thing or two as far as parts.

 

I have no experience with camshafts at all. Just out of curiousity, why is it the 1.7 RR are a waste when going aftermarket ona camshaft?

 

Unless you plan on matching them with your cam, they are worthless. All the rockers do (leaving the roller part aside for now) is multiply the cam lift by that number (also it decreases duration by about 1 point, the higher number you go). With a cam thats pushing lets say .512 lift, with factory 1.6 rockers, 1.7 rockers would make that .544 lift. Absolutely pointless with factory heads that stop flowing(better numbers)arround .460-.470 lift. with 1.6's your well over what you need to get max head flow anyways. It just means that you will be getting more max lift during "ramp up" (opening) and "ramp down" (closing) and thats a margainal gain. Im going to post a picture or two that I think would help a few of you guys out. Pardon me for doing so, but Im going to assume most people dont know diddaly squat about cams so Ill throw a little cam tech in here to help aid you in your cam selection.(I didnt know much either till earlier this month, but its really easy to learn if you have the right info) Definately go with roller rockers though. Less friction=more power Rollers=less friction

A little pic I made that describes all the sections of the cam, and what the numbers mean.


How a camshaft relates to the rest of the valvetrain.
Obviously, you know what the camshaft is. The black thing that touches the cam lobe is a lifter, the lifter absorbes the shock of the cam and is pressed upwards being displaced by the cam lobe. The lifter then presses on the pushrod (red), which lifts that upwards. The pushrod presses on the rocker arm (dark blue) which alters the lift of the cam (multiplied by1.6 for stock), which, via the fulcrum (indicated by the circle, which is usuially a bolt or a stud) redirects the upward movement/energy, into downward motion on the valve(light blue), opening the valve. The valve is then returned into its seat by a spring (not shown).



What does all this mean? Well, not too much except when you put it all together. Lets reiterate what has been said already, and tie it together now that you have a visuial.

Total lift, how much the valve opens in decimals of an inch (due to two things, 1. cam lobe lift, 2. rocker ratio)
Duration @ 050, how long the valve remains open at its max lift ( how long air is alloud in/out through the valve while it is 100% opened)
Total duration, using this number in relation to the duration @ 050 shows you how fast the valve opens ( if your duration @ 050 is 210, but your total duration is 270, you subtract 210 from 270 to get 60, thats 60 degrees. Divide that by two (half is open, half is close) and you get 30 degrees. It takes 30 degrees to open. So that is faster than something that has duration @ 050 of 200.)
Lobe seperation, the trickiest one to visualise. Lobe seperation, obviously is how far off the lobe centerline is from the coresponding lobe's centerline (coresponding being the other lobe in that particular "cylender" intake or exhaust) This is where you can really go wrong. Most people choose to get the tightest LSA (lobe seperation angle) to give you that really lopey "cigarette boat" sound. What you dont realise is this may be hurting your performance. The tighter the LSA the quicker the intake valve opens after the exhaust valve closes. What is wrong with this you ask? "Quicker" valves sound good. Yes and no. The intake does open sooner, but the intake opens before the exhaust is closed, this is called overlap. What happens during overlap is the exhaust valve is finishing expelling gasses at the same time the intake valve is opening and introducing fresh air (and fuel). Some of this air is escaping through the exhaust valve from the vacume that is created, not all but some. This isnt nessissarly detremential to a "performance" engine. At low rpms this would be absolutely useless, and just fuel wasting. This is also where low manifold vacume comes from, causing a loss of vacume opperated components such as power brakes, or the heater door actuator. At high rpms is when this is handy. The motor is spinning so fast that it doesnt have as much time to escape through the exhaust valve, therefore the fuel is used to continue to make power. Also, since the intake is opening sooner (on the intake stroke of the piston) it allows more time for the combustion chamber to fill with air/fuel. On the other hand, too broad of a lobe seperation, and the cam may be too tame (or an unfit combo, though most manufacturers dont make unfit cams) If you have a broad LSA and a broad duration, your going to run into overlap again, but since we are talking about a street almost stock truck, that wide of a duration would not be benificial either way. I hope this helped you in picking out your cam.

Also, one other thing to remember about duration. What is the ability of the flow on the intake and the exhaust? A free flowing exhaust wouldnt need as much duration, because it is able to expell the exhaust gasses at a much faster rate. You would more than likely want the intake with a larger duration due to the restrictive flow of the stock intake manifold. (when i say larger, i dont mean in relation to exhaust duration, i mean in relation to other intake durations)


I claim longest post award, in this thread!

 

****, you seem to really know a lot about these camshafts INDY. When do you plan to have them put into your truck???

 

Theres really not all that much to know. Cams are really about as complicated as picking the right tire/gear combo. Just look over what I posted, and you should be able to figgure out what you need.

As for my truck, Im looking to have everything installed one weekend mid january.

 

How much harder/different would it be on my 5.2? I've had all the accessories and heads and stuff off on a '77 360....

 

not at all. Pushrods motors in general all follow the same basic setup internally, especially when were compairing a LA motor to a MAGNUM motor. There are very few diffrences between the two, when something like a caminstall is the topic. The 5.2 and 5.9 motors are identical with the exception of very few things. If your considering doing a cam install you shouldnt worry about how hard its going to be, just try it and learn as you go, imsho (s=semi).