LT Headers+Y-Pipe in..I feel I lost some torque?
#211
01-28-2008, 03:02 PM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,865
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LT Headers+Y-Pipe in..I feel loss of torque..wtf?
ORIGINAL: zddp8868
YOU set a fair line. hmm. that's cute but in the real world, there is grey area. most times a situation isnt black or white.
on the other hand, there is a formula for what works in the real world. dual exhaust will always benefit an engine like yours. stock or not, a dual configuration will not hurt torque or any of that nonsense. thats an old wives tale. period. an aftermarket camshaft changes how a motor behaves, not HOW IT WORKS. a properly sized dual exhaust system doesn't work great on one motor, then become **** on another. you are taking this decrease in low end position on what grounds? you heard it from another kid? have you performed an unbiased dyno test yourself? and if u dont have access to a dyno, have you taken the same vehicle down the track with both different setups? i think you are spending too much time on fantasy island.
the truth of the matter is that dual exhaust alone will never hurt power if it is properly sized. for small displacement engines, yes putting 3-3.5 inch diameter pipes will lower your low end output, but a properly sized set of pipes does nothing but good for your setup. 2.5 inch pipes are good for most small blocks and some big blocks... although with 460 ci, 3 inch would be better. so again its not that dual exhaust hurts your output, but its the diameter of the piping that if its too small will choke your engine and too large will lower your low-end grunta bit. that's where i think you are getting confused.
lol indy's truck isnt considered a "high horsepower motor." his setup is considered mild in the REAL WORLD. but that's not the reason why his exhaust is the way it is. his exhaust is like that because of its proven design and individual preference. he didnt build his engine around his exhaust, it works vice versa.
PS: 460 ci isnt a rediculous sized engine. thats an intermediate sized big block. try a 572 or 600+ ci motor on for size.
and "true duals kicking in" lol that's a new one on me.
ORIGINAL: 20DodgeNeon00
LOL oh c'mon INDY, I set a fair line between where a true dual is and isn't appropriate. I think for trucks that aren't planned to be opened up like the heads, cams, etc. don't NEED a true dual. I just think a lot of ppl think true duals means better. In your case, yeah, you'd be stupid not to have a true dual because your truck is just gutted inside and out. But for a truck with average mods (headers, intake, maybe chip) then I think a si/do system is perfect. In my case, my system is just right. I dont plan to go any further than an intake, fastman, and a chip. It's a rock crawler, it's not meant for top speeds. But most ppl dont get crazy with their trucks, so I think a true dual is just a waste of cash unless you bring it the next level past headers like you said.
But 0-60'swill have to wait. Truck ran like **** so bad again today even after I did the IAC thing. Truck just wouldnt move going down the road, so I had it towed to my mechanics. So I'm waiting to hear what the darn scoop is, I hate seeing my babe going up on a towe truck, looked so dman pretty though lmao. Anyway, once it's fixed, defiantly a 0-60 vid guys. The truck has just ran like **** since the headers, hopefully it will finally run good after its fixed..
LOL oh c'mon INDY, I set a fair line between where a true dual is and isn't appropriate. I think for trucks that aren't planned to be opened up like the heads, cams, etc. don't NEED a true dual. I just think a lot of ppl think true duals means better. In your case, yeah, you'd be stupid not to have a true dual because your truck is just gutted inside and out. But for a truck with average mods (headers, intake, maybe chip) then I think a si/do system is perfect. In my case, my system is just right. I dont plan to go any further than an intake, fastman, and a chip. It's a rock crawler, it's not meant for top speeds. But most ppl dont get crazy with their trucks, so I think a true dual is just a waste of cash unless you bring it the next level past headers like you said.
But 0-60'swill have to wait. Truck ran like **** so bad again today even after I did the IAC thing. Truck just wouldnt move going down the road, so I had it towed to my mechanics. So I'm waiting to hear what the darn scoop is, I hate seeing my babe going up on a towe truck, looked so dman pretty though lmao. Anyway, once it's fixed, defiantly a 0-60 vid guys. The truck has just ran like **** since the headers, hopefully it will finally run good after its fixed..
on the other hand, there is a formula for what works in the real world. dual exhaust will always benefit an engine like yours. stock or not, a dual configuration will not hurt torque or any of that nonsense. thats an old wives tale. period. an aftermarket camshaft changes how a motor behaves, not HOW IT WORKS. a properly sized dual exhaust system doesn't work great on one motor, then become **** on another. you are taking this decrease in low end position on what grounds? you heard it from another kid? have you performed an unbiased dyno test yourself? and if u dont have access to a dyno, have you taken the same vehicle down the track with both different setups? i think you are spending too much time on fantasy island.
the truth of the matter is that dual exhaust alone will never hurt power if it is properly sized. for small displacement engines, yes putting 3-3.5 inch diameter pipes will lower your low end output, but a properly sized set of pipes does nothing but good for your setup. 2.5 inch pipes are good for most small blocks and some big blocks... although with 460 ci, 3 inch would be better. so again its not that dual exhaust hurts your output, but its the diameter of the piping that if its too small will choke your engine and too large will lower your low-end grunta bit. that's where i think you are getting confused.
lol indy's truck isnt considered a "high horsepower motor." his setup is considered mild in the REAL WORLD. but that's not the reason why his exhaust is the way it is. his exhaust is like that because of its proven design and individual preference. he didnt build his engine around his exhaust, it works vice versa.
PS: 460 ci isnt a rediculous sized engine. thats an intermediate sized big block. try a 572 or 600+ ci motor on for size.
and "true duals kicking in" lol that's a new one on me.
#212
01-28-2008, 03:23 PM
RE: LT Headers+Y-Pipe in..I feel loss of torque..wtf?
ORIGINAL: 20DodgeNeon00
I just don't really know where your coming from on this one. I basically just said all of that. A stock vehicle doesn't NEED a true dual, sure it could run one but it doesn't need it. If your running 2.25" pipes on a true dual, then just go with a si/do set-up in my view. And I beg to differ, Indy's motor is built real world or not. He runs a true dual because it makes most sense for the hosepower output coming out of that engine. He could of ran a si/do muffler, but he knew he has the horsepower to back it. MY brothers truck isn't high performance, but its massive, so therefore I think 2.5" was appropriate. It made the truck quicker on his feet. But yeah, kicking in, ya like that one lol?? Ya know what I mean though,it's effectiveness doesn't show its colors until it hits midrange or when the truck is already moving. But the piping size thing, I agree with that. That was my point more or less. I'm not sitting here aimlessly throwing numbers out there, but you also don't need a dyno to know what works and what doesn't. Me and my brother have two different scaled engines. I have the 360 small block, and he has a 460...and yes, that is a big block. I run the si/do set-up for a reason, because my truck has a smaller engine, and two, will never be built past boltons, there would be no need for a true dual in my need. I found it a waste of money to but up 2.25" pipes against 3" collectors from my headers, then your dealing with silly adapters and different piping sized and I dont like that. What I do like is havning everything all 3". That's still much smaller than 2.25" piping, yet everything still can be universal sized. My truck still retains a ton of torque, and I still manage to beat my brother off the line even with 35" tires. Granted he has an f-350 and a motor that is designed for hauling as opposed to speed, but either way, it's still impressive. Our trucks our two of a kind but really, are the same. I dont understand why everyone thinks I aimlessly project my assumptions though. I have real world knowledge and expericnes with different exhaust set-ups. If I didnt feel confident in knowing what I'm saying, I wouldnt speak. I dont think there is a mistake why my truck pulls so good for a lifted truck, that exhaust really opened it up, and Im very happy with it.
ORIGINAL: zddp8868
YOU set a fair line. hmm. that's cute but in the real world, there is grey area. most times a situation isnt black or white.
on the other hand, there is a formula for what works in the real world. dual exhaust will always benefit an engine like yours. stock or not, a dual configuration will not hurt torque or any of that nonsense. thats an old wives tale. period. an aftermarket camshaft changes how a motor behaves, not HOW IT WORKS. a properly sized dual exhaust system doesn't work great on one motor, then become **** on another. you are taking this decrease in low end position on what grounds? you heard it from another kid? have you performed an unbiased dyno test yourself? and if u dont have access to a dyno, have you taken the same vehicle down the track with both different setups? i think you are spending too much time on fantasy island.
the truth of the matter is that dual exhaust alone will never hurt power if it is properly sized. for small displacement engines, yes putting 3-3.5 inch diameter pipes will lower your low end output, but a properly sized set of pipes does nothing but good for your setup. 2.5 inch pipes are good for most small blocks and some big blocks... although with 460 ci, 3 inch would be better. so again its not that dual exhaust hurts your output, but its the diameter of the piping that if its too small will choke your engine and too large will lower your low-end grunta bit. that's where i think you are getting confused.
lol indy's truck isnt considered a "high horsepower motor." his setup is considered mild in the REAL WORLD. but that's not the reason why his exhaust is the way it is. his exhaust is like that because of its proven design and individual preference. he didnt build his engine around his exhaust, it works vice versa.
PS: 460 ci isnt a rediculous sized engine. thats an intermediate sized big block. try a 572 or 600+ ci motor on for size.
and "true duals kicking in" lol that's a new one on me.
ORIGINAL: 20DodgeNeon00
LOL oh c'mon INDY, I set a fair line between where a true dual is and isn't appropriate. I think for trucks that aren't planned to be opened up like the heads, cams, etc. don't NEED a true dual. I just think a lot of ppl think true duals means better. In your case, yeah, you'd be stupid not to have a true dual because your truck is just gutted inside and out. But for a truck with average mods (headers, intake, maybe chip) then I think a si/do system is perfect. In my case, my system is just right. I dont plan to go any further than an intake, fastman, and a chip. It's a rock crawler, it's not meant for top speeds. But most ppl dont get crazy with their trucks, so I think a true dual is just a waste of cash unless you bring it the next level past headers like you said.
But 0-60'swill have to wait. Truck ran like **** so bad again today even after I did the IAC thing. Truck just wouldnt move going down the road, so I had it towed to my mechanics. So I'm waiting to hear what the darn scoop is, I hate seeing my babe going up on a towe truck, looked so dman pretty though lmao. Anyway, once it's fixed, defiantly a 0-60 vid guys. The truck has just ran like **** since the headers, hopefully it will finally run good after its fixed..
LOL oh c'mon INDY, I set a fair line between where a true dual is and isn't appropriate. I think for trucks that aren't planned to be opened up like the heads, cams, etc. don't NEED a true dual. I just think a lot of ppl think true duals means better. In your case, yeah, you'd be stupid not to have a true dual because your truck is just gutted inside and out. But for a truck with average mods (headers, intake, maybe chip) then I think a si/do system is perfect. In my case, my system is just right. I dont plan to go any further than an intake, fastman, and a chip. It's a rock crawler, it's not meant for top speeds. But most ppl dont get crazy with their trucks, so I think a true dual is just a waste of cash unless you bring it the next level past headers like you said.
But 0-60'swill have to wait. Truck ran like **** so bad again today even after I did the IAC thing. Truck just wouldnt move going down the road, so I had it towed to my mechanics. So I'm waiting to hear what the darn scoop is, I hate seeing my babe going up on a towe truck, looked so dman pretty though lmao. Anyway, once it's fixed, defiantly a 0-60 vid guys. The truck has just ran like **** since the headers, hopefully it will finally run good after its fixed..
on the other hand, there is a formula for what works in the real world. dual exhaust will always benefit an engine like yours. stock or not, a dual configuration will not hurt torque or any of that nonsense. thats an old wives tale. period. an aftermarket camshaft changes how a motor behaves, not HOW IT WORKS. a properly sized dual exhaust system doesn't work great on one motor, then become **** on another. you are taking this decrease in low end position on what grounds? you heard it from another kid? have you performed an unbiased dyno test yourself? and if u dont have access to a dyno, have you taken the same vehicle down the track with both different setups? i think you are spending too much time on fantasy island.
the truth of the matter is that dual exhaust alone will never hurt power if it is properly sized. for small displacement engines, yes putting 3-3.5 inch diameter pipes will lower your low end output, but a properly sized set of pipes does nothing but good for your setup. 2.5 inch pipes are good for most small blocks and some big blocks... although with 460 ci, 3 inch would be better. so again its not that dual exhaust hurts your output, but its the diameter of the piping that if its too small will choke your engine and too large will lower your low-end grunta bit. that's where i think you are getting confused.
lol indy's truck isnt considered a "high horsepower motor." his setup is considered mild in the REAL WORLD. but that's not the reason why his exhaust is the way it is. his exhaust is like that because of its proven design and individual preference. he didnt build his engine around his exhaust, it works vice versa.
PS: 460 ci isnt a rediculous sized engine. thats an intermediate sized big block. try a 572 or 600+ ci motor on for size.
and "true duals kicking in" lol that's a new one on me.
comparing your truck to your brothers is like to comparing apples to....dragons.
you may need to have your butt-dyno re-calibrated, and your real life experiences re-evaluated.
#214
01-28-2008, 03:37 PM
Champion
#215
01-28-2008, 04:05 PM
Captain
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Plant City, FL
Posts: 554
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LT Headers+Y-Pipe in..I feel loss of torque..wtf?
Hey 20DodgeNeon00,
I just quickly read this thread. Your issues with the rough running engine could possibly be due to misrouting of the sparkplug wires. If they rerouted them during the header install, they may be shorting out against each other. There was a TSB on this. Try the following link as a starting point: http://autorepair.about.com/cs/faqs/l/bl654h.htm
I'm sure if you do a search on this topic, you'll find more info. Hope this helps...
I just quickly read this thread. Your issues with the rough running engine could possibly be due to misrouting of the sparkplug wires. If they rerouted them during the header install, they may be shorting out against each other. There was a TSB on this. Try the following link as a starting point: http://autorepair.about.com/cs/faqs/l/bl654h.htm
I'm sure if you do a search on this topic, you'll find more info. Hope this helps...
#216
01-28-2008, 05:27 PM
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,865
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LT Headers+Y-Pipe in..I feel loss of torque..wtf?
Zddp8868, I'm not going to waiste my time having a debate with you because your just being a dink. I run into this all the time. There is a differance between having an educational fun debate, and then theres the people who come on to say one person is wrong and retarded, and needs to have a self evaulation. That just brings it to the next level that I'm not going to go to. We're talking about trucks here, nothing more, nothing less, so once again, the 18 year old has to draw the line for the adults and say it's a bit childish to be bring in my personally into an "exhaust debate"...so thanks for shorting a fun debate...
As for Ron, thank you for the suggesstion. Here is my concern though. Today, I had to get my truck towed to the mechanics, the truck would just not move. It kept misfiring and was just coughing and it was terrible. So the guy calls me back and says i need a "COMPLETE TUNE-UP" (rotor, coil, distributer cap, spark plugs, and wires). He said that would make the truck run good. SO I gave him the green light. I assume when they did the wires and plugs that they put them in the right spot right? So anyway, I get back into the truck, and I'm about 5 minutes down the street, and the truck starts doing it again when I'm stopped. It starts ideling around 400-500 rpms, and I'm just like yep here it goes again. And then I put my foot on the gas and I could tell it was starting to skip again. I barely made it home. I called them back and told him it did it again even after that entire tune-up. So goes back there tomorrow. Should I not be charged at this point because I paid them already for something they said was going to fix it? I know it's sensor related but they were hellbeant on that. So Im going to crawl that thing over there tomorrow morning and let them have it for the day. I dont plan to give them anymore money. I just paid them a lot of money for that tune-up and they said that was going to fix the problem, and they were quite wrong...so what do you think I should do. It has to be something the mechanic did who put my headers in. The truck never did this. Now that weird gurgly boiling water sound is still coming from the dashboard. I think someone said that could be air in the coolant system. Firstly, how might something like that happen during a header job, and secondly, what kind of side effects can happen if there was air in the coolant system? Could it paralyze a truck like this?... I got to get to the bottom of this, I cant keep not having a vehicle.
As for Ron, thank you for the suggesstion. Here is my concern though. Today, I had to get my truck towed to the mechanics, the truck would just not move. It kept misfiring and was just coughing and it was terrible. So the guy calls me back and says i need a "COMPLETE TUNE-UP" (rotor, coil, distributer cap, spark plugs, and wires). He said that would make the truck run good. SO I gave him the green light. I assume when they did the wires and plugs that they put them in the right spot right? So anyway, I get back into the truck, and I'm about 5 minutes down the street, and the truck starts doing it again when I'm stopped. It starts ideling around 400-500 rpms, and I'm just like yep here it goes again. And then I put my foot on the gas and I could tell it was starting to skip again. I barely made it home. I called them back and told him it did it again even after that entire tune-up. So goes back there tomorrow. Should I not be charged at this point because I paid them already for something they said was going to fix it? I know it's sensor related but they were hellbeant on that. So Im going to crawl that thing over there tomorrow morning and let them have it for the day. I dont plan to give them anymore money. I just paid them a lot of money for that tune-up and they said that was going to fix the problem, and they were quite wrong...so what do you think I should do. It has to be something the mechanic did who put my headers in. The truck never did this. Now that weird gurgly boiling water sound is still coming from the dashboard. I think someone said that could be air in the coolant system. Firstly, how might something like that happen during a header job, and secondly, what kind of side effects can happen if there was air in the coolant system? Could it paralyze a truck like this?... I got to get to the bottom of this, I cant keep not having a vehicle.
#217
01-28-2008, 05:52 PM
Champion
RE: LT Headers+Y-Pipe in..I feel loss of torque..wtf?
My truck has that water gurgling sound coming from the passenger side somewhere under the dash or maybe the engine bay. I was told it was air in the cooling system to but even after having the water pump and all changed then it all flushed out it still does it. Has done it almost as long as I've had it and it hasn't caused any issues like you are describing. Not saying for sure that can't be the problem but I have that sound and it doesn't seem to cause issues with mine so I'd probably check out other stuff first.
#218
01-28-2008, 05:54 PM
All Star
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Southwest, Pa
Posts: 958
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: LT Headers+Y-Pipe in..I feel loss of torque..wtf?
I believe you need to tell your mechanic to go F*ck himself and find someone else, use your money more wisely
Dodges are already money pits and throwing partsnot needed into doesnot help.
Im not rippin on you man, im only 19 myself, But damn dude common sense sure helps the wallet out
Dodges are already money pits and throwing partsnot needed into doesnot help.
Im not rippin on you man, im only 19 myself, But damn dude common sense sure helps the wallet out
#219
01-28-2008, 06:15 PM
Champion
#220
01-28-2008, 06:38 PM
