Can we get some pics

 

The primaries on these headers are at 1 3/4". I did not have to remove anything from my engine to install them, but the truck has a 3" body lift so I'm sure that helped.

 

42 inch long primary tubes is what is recommended by Mopar Performance engineers for Mopar small blocks when the design is 4 into 1

4 into 1 headers do take away torque in some rpm ranges
just like they add torque in other rpm ranges

 

and there is the problem... opened up the exhaust too much and now your low end has dropped, upper end screams but bottom end drops. I had this exact same feeling when I did a dual out 2.5" flowmaster setup. Mileage dropped, low end torque dropped. took it in and had the 2.5" out's dropped to 2.25" and a ton of torque came back. with that setup, you'll need to flow more to get low end torque back, meaning cam or 1.7's + 52mm TB and possibly some head work.

I highly recommend the gibson shorties.

my old 5.9 QC 4x4 setup:
52mm fastman
modded kegger
K&N fipk w/6x9 round filter
r/t heads
gibson shorties
crower 1.7's
dual out flowmaster (2.25" outs).
MSD wires
MSD coil
mopar cap & rotor
autolite 3923's
insulated fuel lines
fuel cooler.

this setup made an awesome combo for everyday driving. easily accelerated in the mountains w/o downshifting and was able to get upper 14's for mileage if I kept my foot out of it. (actually got close to 16's on a road trip for 2 tanks of fuel)

Neon, if you want low end torque back, wrap your fuel lines, this wont give you a ton of power but it'll help.


edit: forgot to mention... 4.11's and 295-75-16 tires (34")

 

For the type of work that you do 20dodgeneon. You should look into the 1.7 rockers. That'll bring back low end too.

Steve

The way I understood it Long Tubes were supposed to increase the low end. I've also seen that eveyone generally agrees that 3" in the sweet spot in exhaust size. So why do you say he opened it up to much?

 

I'm with Steve on this one. 3" is too much, escpecially with a stock kegger type intake up top and stock heads. Air velocity and volume is very poor. If you had an M1 or similar type intake along with cam or 1.7's and head work as Steve suggests, or bored/stroked cylinders to increase air volume, I bet those long tubes would probably really perform then. But Neons running a stock kegger intake, stock heads, stock TB, stock air assembly, there is just not enough air flow in to validate a 3" exhaust. Like I mentioned earlier I have an upgraded air intake, upgraded TB, 1.7 rockers, headers, etc, and I even felt a loss in low end with a 3" setup from the cat back. Just too big as Steve said.

 

I’m calling BS. You guys have been around a long time and I respect your opinions but, to many people have said 3” was the perfect size. I’ve also been told by several people that 2.25” was the right size for true duals because they add up to 3”. Those LT should have added low end. There is something else causing the loss that maybe the new headers have exasperated. I think is cat is the problem. IT’s slowing down the exhaust because it’s basically a 5” pipe. I think if he puts a pipe in place of the cat most of his power will come back. Not to mention his plenum is probably screwed since he can’t run low grade gas without pinging.

 

with the right mods it will. the right mods will move more air than his old stock setup did. once those mods are in place the setup he has will start to shine.

think of it this way... you have a straw (or exhaust) that has a large oversized area in the middle of it (bubble) (same size on either end of the "bubble") when you blow thru the straw (flow thru the exhaust), you will have to fill up the bubble before getting the air to flow out of the other end. this is going to slow the flow down thru the straw (exhaust)

hope that makes sense, it was the best way I could think to try to explain it. I have a buddy with a chevy who put in a larger mid section between the cat & the muffler and had the same thing happen to him... lost low end torque.

 

Where is the bubble at? I understand what you’re saying and I’m trying to picture the bubble. Are you talking about the hollow cat or the 3” pipe that runs into the muffler? Really his exhaust is pretty much uniform accept for the 2.5” duals. Although I doubt they make that much of a difference of 2.25”

 

Why do you think I went to 3"? Same reason you just stated, because everyone says it is the perfect size. So I did it, and the result was not what I expected. I think most of the people who say 3" is ideal have never actually tried it and are just repeating what they read in some other thread. That's BS. I've tired it, and am telling you my honest results. No BS.