V10 vs. Cummins
All Star
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 863
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From: East Alabama
Look closer, what else can ya see? Somethings are obvious, others are not so.
Last edited by Coal Train; Feb 4, 2009 at 07:00 AM.
All Star
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 759
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From: Wyoming
Haha. Other than the dual pumps, studs, springs....nothin! One would be led to believe since your runnin dual pumps, gotta have injectors. What size injectors and whose? Im likely goin with F1 Flux 4s or there abouts
All Star
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 863
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From: East Alabama
The injectors are DDP 90. Those are getting dropped for a set of 200's.
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 863
Likes: 0
From: East Alabama
Tie those in with .093 HP connector tubes, stainless steel .093 HP fuel lines, billet fuel rail and a dual feed y-line kit from Glacier Diesel and the fuel system is done.
Last edited by Coal Train; Feb 5, 2009 at 06:31 PM.
New Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 20
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From: Upstate New York (Country Boy)
Some REAL answers that people are looking for...
It appears I'm nearly a year late at noticing this forum topic... Been too busy to be on the 'net wasting time this past year.
Anyhow, here's the skinny on the Dodge V-10 8.0L vs. the Cummins 5.9L 24V...
It just so happens I own BOTH powerplants in some of my Ram trucks.
1.) My stock, low mileage Ram V-10 is a 1997 4x4 2500HD, 5-speed, RegCab, longbed with 4.10 gears. Sits on LT35x12.50R-16.5 rubber, aluminum deep dish ARE wheels. Dana 80 rear axle, Dana 60 front axle. Yeah, the Dana 80 is a SRW 1-ton axle. It was an option. This truck was special-ordered new from the factory with "the best of everything" in it.
2.) My lightly modded 24V CTD Ram is a 1999 4x4 2500HD, automatic, QuadCab, shortbed with 3.55 gears. She's straight piped, chipped, and twin mitre cut stacks. Sits on LT33x12.50R-16 rubber, aluminum deep dish ARE wheels. (She's a pretty lookin' truck.) Dana 70 rear axle, Dana 60 front axle out of a 2001 Ram V-10 2500HD (don't ask why - lol).
3.) My other 24V CTD Ram is 100% stock. A 1999 4x4 2500HD, automatic, QuadCab, longbed with 4.10 gears. Sits on LT285/75R-16 rubber, stock chrome steel "sawblade" wheels. Dana 70 rear axle, Dana 60 front axle.
Ok... Here are some REAL LIFE PROVEN FACTS that I'm sure you are all interested in:
Fuel Economy:
The stock V-10 gasser with the 4.10's gets 9-11 mpg. Period.
The slightly modded 24V CTD with the 3.55's gets 17-22 mpg. Period.
The stock 24V CTD with the 4.10's gets 16-21 mpg. Period.
I'm pretty sure a combination of the minor mods and the higher ratio (lower numerically) gears are what make my one diesel a slight bit more efficient than the other. You'll notice the difference is quite minimal.
Stock Drag Racing:
As far as drag racing is concerned, this is simple. My V-10 whips both diesels. Been there, done it.
It's a fact. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about trucks that have been "turned up" or heavily modded. Naturally, they will be more powerful, no matter whether gas or diesel - DUH!
Towing/Hauling:
As far as flat-out towing is concerned, this is a little more complex.
My V-10 is a THIRSTY girl, but she will pull a very heavy load (nearly 14,000# - and yes, I'm fully AWARE that 14,000# is severely overloaded for a 3/4 ton) from 0-60 FASTER than either of my CTD's. Yep. It also pulls up the hills just as well, although on an extended run up a very long hill (we're talking several miles), the CTD's turn fewer RPM's and hold their own a little better than the V-10.
I must admit, my slightly modded CTD does hang with the V-10 once rolling along, and the diesel with the stacks looks and sounds a lot more impressive while doing it.
My other stocker CTD works fine, but doesn't win any races. Just a good solid workin' girl.
They honestly pretty much all pull the same, with the slight nod going to the diesels on long hill heavy pulls. Either powerplant will WHIP a V-8 gasser pulling heavy loads.
Keep in mind, this is how the engineers designed these trucks. To be basically "the same" in power outputs from the factory.
Torque & Horsepower:
Repeating what we all already know...
Stock Gas V-10's had more Hp than the stock Cummins Diesels.
Stock Cummins Diesels had (only a little) more TORQUE than the stock Gas V-10's.
The actual Hp & Torque numbers varied from year to year, particularly in the diesels. Dodge/Cummins continually pushed up the numbers as the years went by and from generation to generation. Regardless, the numbers and stats are close enough to each other, that in real life towing performances, stock for stock, they are basically the same.
So what makes one better than the other?:
Well, IT REALLY ALL COMES DOWN TO YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. How will you be using your Dodge truck?
- Diesels shine in overall longevity, torque, fuel economy, and the potential for cheap aftermarket upgrades that give more "bang for the buck".
Again, just the facts...
- Gassers shine in cold starts - get up to operating temperature quicker, run quieter (you can't even hear my V-10 at idle), and are significantly cheaper to purchase whether new OR used.
Reliability...
Look, I've had issues with both powerplants. Ironically, both were MAJOR, and both were extremely expensive. What really pissed me off is the fact that DODGE and CUMMINS both do NOT stand behind obvious defects. They should both be ashamed of themselves. I will say this, Cummins did fix their issues in later engines, and Dodge got what they had coming - they went broke. Idiots. I hate to say it, but I would switch to Ford if they had Cummins powerplants in their pickups. But until that day, I'm pretty likely to stay a Dodge man. Ford can't build a diesel pickup to save their lives. The best they ever had, they quit building (the 7.3L Turboed Powerstroke), and they were still not nearly good as the Cummins in fuel economy!
At any rate, in this day and age I'd say you have a 50/50 shot at having NO problems vs. MAJOR mechanical problems with a given engine. It's just the way mass-production is with engines. Some are "bulletproof", and some need to be shot at and put down! Keep in mind, it is NORMAL to experience minor problems with any engine, especially now-a-days with all this environmental B.S. that they have on them.
(Thanks again Al Gore and all you stupid hippie douche-bags!)
So what would I buy if I were to buy new?:
If I am to purchase any more pickup trucks in the future (not likely anytime soon with this "lovely" economy), then I will be buying DIESELS. They are more efficient to run, and if properly cared for, they are practically indestructable. The truck's chassis itself will be rebuilt about 3 times before the engine is due for an overhaul.
Don't get me wrong, I love my V-10, but she's a freakin' fuel pig. Now, I'll grant you, it's MUCH better then the Chevy 454's and Ford 460's. They were horrific! V-10's produce more torque, more power, and are actually more fuel efficient than the 'ol big block V-8's.
Another thing to point out is that the V-10 gets essentially the same economy as the 360 V-8's, with one helluva lot more TORQUE. I have a couple of 1995 2500HD 4x4 Rams with the 360's as well. They are both fuel pigs.
Again, just stating the FACTS.
A little bit more about Fuel Economy:
Burning Gasoline at $3.00/gallon, and Diesel at $4.00/gallon in these comparable Ram 2500 series trucks, guess what... After crunching the numbers, I actually have saved several THOUSANDS of dollars in my fuel bill over the course of the year by running the Diesel over the Gas, particularly in long hauls. Heck, why do you think tractor trailer trucks ALL run diesels? Come on now... it's really a no-brainer folks.
Again, more FACTS.
Another fuel consumption point is that engine IDLE time burns much more fuel in the gasser than in the diesel. I have a habit of letting my trucks run at idle, while doing certain tasks, as well as after a hard pull, for a "cool-down" period. There's nothing worse for an engine than to go from working near full power to shutting down immediately without a cool down period!
Gassers can handle short trips, start/stops better than diesels. This is primarily due to the fact that a spark-ignition engine warms up quicker, and runs significantly lower compression pressures due to the nature of the engines.
My Conclusion:
After owning both of them and reviewing the facts, my conclusion is this...
Diesels are better overall, in damned near every aspect. However, not everyone can afford them.
But IMO... if you are in business where you WORK your truck on a daily basis, you are crazy to run anything else but a diesel.
My interesting swap idea (in the works):
By the way... I'm planning on putting a 2001 5.9L H.O. CTD in my 1997 2500HD V-10.
Why swap to a diesel?
1.) Because my 1997 Ram 2500HD is a great low-mileage truck with a great rust-free body.
2.) I already have acquired the (pricey) 2001 "VIN 7" 24V H.O. diesel engine.
3.) And MOSTLY because despite it's wicked low mileage for its age, my V-10 truck has jack-squat for resale value! Nobody wants them unless you "give them away" and I'll be damned if I'm doing that! She's still a great truck!
To date, I've gotten almost all the things that I believe are going to be needed to do the swap. Only real major thing I'm lacking now is the major amount of TIME that it's going to take to do all this work.
Because it's going to be a "project" swapping harnesses, computers, and a TON of other "minor" other B.S. over, and because it's a computer-controlled 24V CTD instead of a mechanical 12V CTD, I figure it should take nearly twice the time to swap from gas to diesel, as it would if I were doing the swap the other way around (diesel to gas... which would be totally nuts, btw).
My low mileage V-10 will be available for sale (eventually):
Hopefully sometime during this upcoming year (2010), I will have my good low-mileage (around 70K orig. miles) V-10 engine available for sale. I'll try to keep you gas-burner fans posted, but no promises. I know that someone will love this for a project, a drag motor, a mud truck, or what have you - for sure!
~AJ
Anyhow, here's the skinny on the Dodge V-10 8.0L vs. the Cummins 5.9L 24V...
It just so happens I own BOTH powerplants in some of my Ram trucks.
1.) My stock, low mileage Ram V-10 is a 1997 4x4 2500HD, 5-speed, RegCab, longbed with 4.10 gears. Sits on LT35x12.50R-16.5 rubber, aluminum deep dish ARE wheels. Dana 80 rear axle, Dana 60 front axle. Yeah, the Dana 80 is a SRW 1-ton axle. It was an option. This truck was special-ordered new from the factory with "the best of everything" in it.
2.) My lightly modded 24V CTD Ram is a 1999 4x4 2500HD, automatic, QuadCab, shortbed with 3.55 gears. She's straight piped, chipped, and twin mitre cut stacks. Sits on LT33x12.50R-16 rubber, aluminum deep dish ARE wheels. (She's a pretty lookin' truck.) Dana 70 rear axle, Dana 60 front axle out of a 2001 Ram V-10 2500HD (don't ask why - lol).
3.) My other 24V CTD Ram is 100% stock. A 1999 4x4 2500HD, automatic, QuadCab, longbed with 4.10 gears. Sits on LT285/75R-16 rubber, stock chrome steel "sawblade" wheels. Dana 70 rear axle, Dana 60 front axle.
Ok... Here are some REAL LIFE PROVEN FACTS that I'm sure you are all interested in:
Fuel Economy:
The stock V-10 gasser with the 4.10's gets 9-11 mpg. Period.
The slightly modded 24V CTD with the 3.55's gets 17-22 mpg. Period.
The stock 24V CTD with the 4.10's gets 16-21 mpg. Period.
I'm pretty sure a combination of the minor mods and the higher ratio (lower numerically) gears are what make my one diesel a slight bit more efficient than the other. You'll notice the difference is quite minimal.
Stock Drag Racing:
As far as drag racing is concerned, this is simple. My V-10 whips both diesels. Been there, done it.
It's a fact. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about trucks that have been "turned up" or heavily modded. Naturally, they will be more powerful, no matter whether gas or diesel - DUH!
Towing/Hauling:
As far as flat-out towing is concerned, this is a little more complex.
My V-10 is a THIRSTY girl, but she will pull a very heavy load (nearly 14,000# - and yes, I'm fully AWARE that 14,000# is severely overloaded for a 3/4 ton) from 0-60 FASTER than either of my CTD's. Yep. It also pulls up the hills just as well, although on an extended run up a very long hill (we're talking several miles), the CTD's turn fewer RPM's and hold their own a little better than the V-10.
I must admit, my slightly modded CTD does hang with the V-10 once rolling along, and the diesel with the stacks looks and sounds a lot more impressive while doing it.
My other stocker CTD works fine, but doesn't win any races. Just a good solid workin' girl.
They honestly pretty much all pull the same, with the slight nod going to the diesels on long hill heavy pulls. Either powerplant will WHIP a V-8 gasser pulling heavy loads.
Keep in mind, this is how the engineers designed these trucks. To be basically "the same" in power outputs from the factory.
Torque & Horsepower:
Repeating what we all already know...
Stock Gas V-10's had more Hp than the stock Cummins Diesels.
Stock Cummins Diesels had (only a little) more TORQUE than the stock Gas V-10's.
The actual Hp & Torque numbers varied from year to year, particularly in the diesels. Dodge/Cummins continually pushed up the numbers as the years went by and from generation to generation. Regardless, the numbers and stats are close enough to each other, that in real life towing performances, stock for stock, they are basically the same.
So what makes one better than the other?:
Well, IT REALLY ALL COMES DOWN TO YOUR PERSONAL PREFERENCE. How will you be using your Dodge truck?
- Diesels shine in overall longevity, torque, fuel economy, and the potential for cheap aftermarket upgrades that give more "bang for the buck".
Again, just the facts...
- Gassers shine in cold starts - get up to operating temperature quicker, run quieter (you can't even hear my V-10 at idle), and are significantly cheaper to purchase whether new OR used.
Reliability...
Look, I've had issues with both powerplants. Ironically, both were MAJOR, and both were extremely expensive. What really pissed me off is the fact that DODGE and CUMMINS both do NOT stand behind obvious defects. They should both be ashamed of themselves. I will say this, Cummins did fix their issues in later engines, and Dodge got what they had coming - they went broke. Idiots. I hate to say it, but I would switch to Ford if they had Cummins powerplants in their pickups. But until that day, I'm pretty likely to stay a Dodge man. Ford can't build a diesel pickup to save their lives. The best they ever had, they quit building (the 7.3L Turboed Powerstroke), and they were still not nearly good as the Cummins in fuel economy!
At any rate, in this day and age I'd say you have a 50/50 shot at having NO problems vs. MAJOR mechanical problems with a given engine. It's just the way mass-production is with engines. Some are "bulletproof", and some need to be shot at and put down! Keep in mind, it is NORMAL to experience minor problems with any engine, especially now-a-days with all this environmental B.S. that they have on them.
(Thanks again Al Gore and all you stupid hippie douche-bags!)
So what would I buy if I were to buy new?:
If I am to purchase any more pickup trucks in the future (not likely anytime soon with this "lovely" economy), then I will be buying DIESELS. They are more efficient to run, and if properly cared for, they are practically indestructable. The truck's chassis itself will be rebuilt about 3 times before the engine is due for an overhaul.
Don't get me wrong, I love my V-10, but she's a freakin' fuel pig. Now, I'll grant you, it's MUCH better then the Chevy 454's and Ford 460's. They were horrific! V-10's produce more torque, more power, and are actually more fuel efficient than the 'ol big block V-8's.
Another thing to point out is that the V-10 gets essentially the same economy as the 360 V-8's, with one helluva lot more TORQUE. I have a couple of 1995 2500HD 4x4 Rams with the 360's as well. They are both fuel pigs.
Again, just stating the FACTS.
A little bit more about Fuel Economy:
Burning Gasoline at $3.00/gallon, and Diesel at $4.00/gallon in these comparable Ram 2500 series trucks, guess what... After crunching the numbers, I actually have saved several THOUSANDS of dollars in my fuel bill over the course of the year by running the Diesel over the Gas, particularly in long hauls. Heck, why do you think tractor trailer trucks ALL run diesels? Come on now... it's really a no-brainer folks.
Again, more FACTS.
Another fuel consumption point is that engine IDLE time burns much more fuel in the gasser than in the diesel. I have a habit of letting my trucks run at idle, while doing certain tasks, as well as after a hard pull, for a "cool-down" period. There's nothing worse for an engine than to go from working near full power to shutting down immediately without a cool down period!
Gassers can handle short trips, start/stops better than diesels. This is primarily due to the fact that a spark-ignition engine warms up quicker, and runs significantly lower compression pressures due to the nature of the engines.
My Conclusion:
After owning both of them and reviewing the facts, my conclusion is this...
Diesels are better overall, in damned near every aspect. However, not everyone can afford them.
But IMO... if you are in business where you WORK your truck on a daily basis, you are crazy to run anything else but a diesel.
My interesting swap idea (in the works):
By the way... I'm planning on putting a 2001 5.9L H.O. CTD in my 1997 2500HD V-10.
Why swap to a diesel?
1.) Because my 1997 Ram 2500HD is a great low-mileage truck with a great rust-free body.
2.) I already have acquired the (pricey) 2001 "VIN 7" 24V H.O. diesel engine.
3.) And MOSTLY because despite it's wicked low mileage for its age, my V-10 truck has jack-squat for resale value! Nobody wants them unless you "give them away" and I'll be damned if I'm doing that! She's still a great truck!
To date, I've gotten almost all the things that I believe are going to be needed to do the swap. Only real major thing I'm lacking now is the major amount of TIME that it's going to take to do all this work.
Because it's going to be a "project" swapping harnesses, computers, and a TON of other "minor" other B.S. over, and because it's a computer-controlled 24V CTD instead of a mechanical 12V CTD, I figure it should take nearly twice the time to swap from gas to diesel, as it would if I were doing the swap the other way around (diesel to gas... which would be totally nuts, btw).
My low mileage V-10 will be available for sale (eventually):
Hopefully sometime during this upcoming year (2010), I will have my good low-mileage (around 70K orig. miles) V-10 engine available for sale. I'll try to keep you gas-burner fans posted, but no promises. I know that someone will love this for a project, a drag motor, a mud truck, or what have you - for sure!
~AJ
Last edited by superturbodiesel; Dec 4, 2009 at 07:08 PM. Reason: Censorship... I sure hate those little "stars". What are we, twelve?
Thread Starter
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Professional
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 199
Likes: 1
From: Atlanta
Wow, this thread still exists?? I like my V10 when it comes to acceleration and throttle response. It will pull anything a diesel will, but like you said the diesel is slow and steady and will go for longer. I respect diesels more than I did a year ago after driving a 6.7 CTD, it wasn't slow or loud. The V10 era is over and the diesel era is here, I'm just old fashioned, and poor.