Well I got the bolt out whew! I messed around with it for a bit, then had a beer and a swim to cool off and came back to it. Using an air pencil with mini cutting wheel with surgical precision () cut a notch in the bottom end of it... I held my breath and gave er a turn with a screwdriver and it came out relatively easy... now to put the dist back in and wait for my cap to get here

After pulling the dist out, I realized that the mark I made on the plate for the notch was useless, as the plate turns with the shaft anyways... but after seeing that the business end of that shaft has a straight notch that can only go in one of 2 ways, amirite? and I know which way the notch was pointing when I pulled it out so that shouldn't be a problem...

 

That would be correct. And yes, You have PICTURES!!!

 

Would you mind keeping to the topic of the distributor and not your shenanigans?

 

EDIT, too long winded to reply to you VW,


Yes, but moving the outer housing out of alignment with the inner ring causes a change in fuel sync, which is when the injector fires. Any greater than +/-20* and the PCM loses fuel sync and the engine won't run, or runs like crap. Because the disty runs off the cam, which is turned by the crankshaft via the timing chain, any slack in the timing chain will cause the fuel sync to bounce around and the engine won't run as smooth.

My understanding of fuel sync is this:

The fuel sync determines when the injectors fire in relationship to the opening of the intake valve. From the factory, injectors are set to fire at 0 fuel sync, and this is with the intake valve closed. Advancing fuel sync fires the injector even sooner and seems to run a bit better on a street car, even as much as +6 to +8. Retarding will wait on injector firing and may make it line up better with the opening of the intake valve. This seems like a good idea, right? It's not on our engines and here's why:

Our injectors suck for non-boosted applications. The one pintle design is a pencil beam of gas as shown in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Emnax...eature=related

Ours spray like the 3rd one.

This is bad because the gas doesn't atomize well in N/A engines. It may very well be favorable for a boosted application, as the fuel is already being beaten into a pulp by the boosted air, and when timing events get so small at high RPMs, you're getting the charge into the cylinder as quickly as possible, which is of benefit at 6000K+RPMs

But for us normal folks, it sucks as the gas stays liquid. Liquid gas does not burn correctly in the combustion chamber and causes all sorts of carbonizing on the pistons, valves and down into the catalytic converter.

I took the heads off the engine just this last winter and I **** you not, I scraped as much as an 1/8th an inch of carbon off the piston tops, and this was after I ran a tank of chevron fuel concentrate, and a can of Mopar Combustion Chamber Cleaner thru the engine. I was blown away.

The reason the injectors fire when the valve is closed is because the valve gets hotter than the rest of the cylinder because it's thin steel compared to the cast iron cylinder head and block, and it's isolated from any cooling channels that run thru the head and block. The hot valve actually helps to vaporize the liquid gas and atomizes it better before the charge enters the cylinder. Advancing the injector firing lets it sit on the valve a bit longer too, which is why folks seem to see a slight benefit by twisting the disty advanced just a hair. Still, this will lead to carbon deposits on the intake valves, which is still bad.

I'm convinced the only good solution is to dump the stock injectors. I just ordered a set of the Bosch 3's and am going to test it out. I anticipate the engine should idle smoother, (especially on cold start up), accelerate better and faster. If my a/f gauge is reading correctly, Hemifever can dial in the a/f ratio to match the stock injectors via my SCT and I'd imagine there will be a fuel savings to be found if I drive it the same as I currently do.

It's interesting to note that Chrysler switched to a 4 hole design for the 3.7L, 4.7L and 5.7L engines. I've heard rumor that the 2002 4.7L engines flowed the exact same lbs/hr as the 5.2s and 5.9s from 1996-2001, but were a 4 hole design and can be swapped (EV6 connectors), however, I have not found the lbs/hr data on the 2002 4.7L to verify this.

 

Maxx,

The blade in the end of the disty drive shaft must go into the notch in the end of the drive gear, and the hall effect ring in the distributor should swing thru the west and southern quadrants.

If it doesn't start after a few tries, try removing the disty and rotating it 180* Remember the square side goes toward the passenger side.

 

^^ Earlier this spring, I took my truck to a local shop to check the timing. Bam! She's ~9.7º advanced, and no amount of turning the distributor body made a difference, which I tried to explain. The tech did some quick research, which pointed him to the need for the PCM to having to be reprogrammed. I may just let the local dealership do it so I can ensure the fuel sync isn't out of whack.

I'd love to know the results of your injector test. I am planning to completely redo my truck sometime in the next year, meaning I'm removing every nut, screw, and bolt to repair all dents, clean it, reshoot it, and install/upgrade necessary parts. I'm talking removing the cab, engine -- THE WORKS!

 

I will post up the results for sure.

 

I got it in there now, just waiting for the cap to get here ... I'm pretty sure its back how it should be, with the marks I made and now that I know how the shaft and cam gear looks like... We'll see in a while I guess

 

Sure, you are correct, the dizzy will not change ignition timing, however, you can PUT it out inadvertently due to incorrect clocking of the distributor.

It's not adjusting the timing but rather MIS-aligning the dwell CKT, the Hall CKT, and lastly, the terminal in the cap.

If one were to rotate the cap clockwise 90º, it would have a serious impact on the timing and, as AIM pointed out, it would not run at all.

The PCM has a failsafe mechanism programmed in that <IF> it reads the OFFSET value and, it falls outside operational limits, the PCM will trip the ASD relay and kill the EFI system. It is programmed to do so as a means of if that condition were to manifest, it normally means that the timing chain let go and lost the CAM to CRANK position thus resulting in mechanical damage or, injectors firing at the wrong time etc.

Again, to clarify, the timing will BE OFF if the cap is moved and, depending on how far it is moved, will throw the PCM CPS input sensor data off to the CKPS, which further domino affects down the line. Now, a slight bit off, the PCM can adjust if it falls within the upper and lower set-point values.

At which, point, it will still run but, it wise to use a DART or DRB III tool to reset the timing and the Dizzy to ensure it's accurately set.

CM

 

AIM,

In regards to FUEL INJECTORS, the answer is YES- it can be totally compensated for at the tune if the flow rate / lb rating is not exceed by too much. I ran Bosch Blue tops (FORD) on my Dodge without issue. I was running higher flow-rate injectors as I was anticipating building up a much larger engine this year.

Well, long story short, I ran out of money to build the engine and, I had already installed them in the 5.2. I simply had Hemi trim it back at the PCM level. The Bosch Blue Tops are very good. I wouldn't go with remans but, new, they are very solid indeed.

Now, while on the subject of fuel injectors, a good friend of mine who rebuilds those things has the test equipment to test injectors. What was starting to us was the fact that the 4-orifice injector nozzles that we tested did NOT spray worth s-h-i-t. In our tests, we liked the single hole pattern that was produced by Ford Blue Tops. I believe those were single orifice design but, I may be mistaken. This was last year in fact so, it wasn't too long ago.

CM