2nd Gen Ram Tech 1994-2001 Rams: This section is for TECHNICAL discussions only, that involve the 1994 through 2001 Rams. For any non-tech discussions, please direct your attention to the "General discussion/NON-tech" sub sections.

Prodigous amounts of smoke at startup.

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Nov 2, 2010 | 08:21 PM
  #1  
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou
Thread Starter
|
Administrator
Veteran: Air Force
Community Favorite
15 Year Member
Community Builder
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,468
Likes: 4,221
From: Clayton MI
Default Prodigous amounts of smoke at startup.

Well, today was fun. Got the new high volume oil pump installed, and I was correct, there was some manner of fibrous material clogging the pickup screen. Looks almost like someone left a rag in the oil pan the last time is was apart. Had the nice one piece rubber gasket around it when I took it off..... But, the job went fairly well, without too much drama. Got it reassembled, re-filled the oil, and fired it up. Oil pressure built to 80 pounds almost immediately. That was a nice surprise..... but, I had HUGE amounts of smoke out the tailpipe........ and I mean a LOT. ran the engine for a couple minutes, with some runs up to about 2K RPM..... still LOTS of smoke.....

Keep in mind, the plenum repair was done last week..... There is no oil in the intake. (yeah, I looked.......) It did this a bit previously, but, I attributed that to valve seals..... the amount of smoke I am seeing now though.... I really can't figger valve seals accounting for that much smoke. And yes, It is indeed oil burning. The smoke is greyish black, and doesn't burn the eyes like burning coolant would.....

So, what avenues are there for oil to get into the cylinders?
 
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2010 | 08:47 PM
  #2  
J415's Avatar
J415
Champion
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,416
Likes: 4
From: Bay Area, CA
Default

Just curious, how many miles do you have on the engine? Is it stock?
 
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2010 | 08:51 PM
  #3  
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou
Thread Starter
|
Administrator
Veteran: Air Force
Community Favorite
15 Year Member
Community Builder
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,468
Likes: 4,221
From: Clayton MI
Default

Ooops...... I was thinking I should include that info..... but, forgot to put it in there. Been a long day staring at the underside of an engine, with oil dripping on me...

165,000 miles, or within a few hundred of such. Engine runs great. Good power, no rude noises..... oil pressure is now stellar...... just... LOTS of smoke. I didn't wanna run the engine up too long, so, I don't know if it clears off after a bit, did before, but then, before, I didn't get nearly this volume of smoke either.....
 
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2010 | 09:02 PM
  #4  
MilesBFree's Avatar
MilesBFree
Professional
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 102
Likes: 1
Default

Is it grey/black or blue/black?

Oil is usually blueish. Too much gas is usually blackish. Just trying to think if there might be anything from that work that could have affected the amount of fuel delivered? Like if the return line got kinked during the plenum replacement. Just thinking out loud...
 
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2010 | 09:41 PM
  #5  
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou
Thread Starter
|
Administrator
Veteran: Air Force
Community Favorite
15 Year Member
Community Builder
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,468
Likes: 4,221
From: Clayton MI
Default

There is no return line on these trucks. Smoke is bluish Gray.

For the life of me, I can't understand why higher oil pressure would cause it, nor do I see how fixing the plenum (which was using a great deal of oil...) would do anything either. I got more smoke on startup after doing the oil pump, than I have ever seen..... The plan for the morning is, put the oil pressure sensor back in (the new one....), and take the truck out for a drive.

Now, bear in mind, I DID put lucas oil additive in there when I refilled it post-plenum repair. (and a new filter as well....) I won't be using that stuff again. I found a pool of it at the bottom of the oil pan, and it was a drag to clean out...... brake cleaner just wouldn't cut it.....

I found some flakes of paper gasket in the pan, but, aside from that, no metal shavings or anything truly out of the ordinary. I AM curious where the stuff in the pickup screen came from though. Had the consistency of an old rotted rag.... just some fibrous stuff, that was gunked up with sludge. I can see why my pressure got weird.

The engine is bone stock, with a modded kegger, and the freshly installed high volume oil pump. Would bad valve seals, coupled with worn valve guides account for this? I will have to see in the morning if the smoke clears after I drive it for a bit.
 
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2010 | 10:39 PM
  #6  
aim4squirrels's Avatar
aim4squirrels
Legend
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,843
Likes: 13
From: DFW, Texas
Default

Thinking out loud:

Fibrous material may be the innards of a cheap oil filter, or somebody that worked on it may very well left a rag in the the crank area.

Dumb question, but did you check the oil level?

Could the excessive oil pressure cause some blowby thru the PCV? what valve covers are you using?

Perhaps the oil control rings on the pistons are on their way out and the new pressure is pushing more by...

Valve guide seals would be another reason for excessive oil consumption.
 
Reply
Old Nov 2, 2010 | 11:55 PM
  #7  
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou
Thread Starter
|
Administrator
Veteran: Air Force
Community Favorite
15 Year Member
Community Builder
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,468
Likes: 4,221
From: Clayton MI
Default

Oil level was full...... and I only ran it for probably two or three minutes, but, it was still smoking like a diesel.....

I don't know that pressurized oil gets anywhere near the rings..... I am sure some gets splashed on the cylinder walls from the crankshaft...... don't know if there is an oil passage that sprays the bottom of the piston or not.... I don't wanna have to do rings.... That would suck. (and, I can't afford it.)

PCV valve is new..... I just wonder if I don't have a buildup of crap on the top of the motor, and the new "real" oil pressure it putting more up there, for the valves to suck in.......

I am hoping it is simply valve seals. With 160K on the engine...... I am sure they are long past due for replacement. That'll be my next trick I suppose. Valve seals are cheap after all. Already have a new set of valve cover gaskets. Guess I need to chat with my friend, and see if I can't schedule some more shop time. Such fun.

Thanks for the help folks.
 
Reply
Old Nov 3, 2010 | 07:07 AM
  #8  
dhvaughan's Avatar
dhvaughan
Hall Of Fame
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,204
Likes: 10
From: Gainesville, Ga.
Default

i also don't think pressurized oil gets anywhere near the rings.
you might have a higher volume of oil around the heads, valve guides, and valve seals. it might be seeping by. 80 psi is some strong pressure.

i'd run it a little and see if it clears up at rpm. valve seals generally do, and then smoke like hell at idle. also check the plugs after some miles and see if there's any sign of fouling.
 
Reply
Old Nov 3, 2010 | 07:56 AM
  #9  
aim4squirrels's Avatar
aim4squirrels
Legend
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 7,843
Likes: 13
From: DFW, Texas
Default

Bad choice of words, higher pressure plus a clean pickup means its cycling thru the engine more. More to sling off the crank shaft.

Valve seals and thru the intake are the easy routes for oil to burn. Checking those two first would be wisest.
 
Reply
Old Nov 3, 2010 | 11:01 AM
  #10  
HeyYou's Avatar
HeyYou
Thread Starter
|
Administrator
Veteran: Air Force
Community Favorite
15 Year Member
Community Builder
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,468
Likes: 4,221
From: Clayton MI
Default

Yep, gonna check the PCV system, and pull the valve covers today. See what it looks like under there, given what I found in the pickup tube, I wouldn't be surprised to find a bunch of crap plugging the drain holes.
 
Reply



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:05 PM.