Actually, I did tear down my engine along with witnessing several big block motors at California Horsepower that were torn down. I've also seen a new Vette motor totally crap out at both idle and under loading it down at WOT on the 210 freeway out in So Cal when running M1.

By simply changing the oil back to Dino Oil, the problems were resolved 100%. Car was back on the 210 under WOT and under idle, no more noise.

I've got heads at my shop along with an intake, timing chain, and other parts totally loaded with debris from prolonged use of synthetic motor oil for ten years.

IF you look on this site, there's many others who've reported the same exact results of this Cajun BBQ crust all over their engines and they too, were running M1 and other synths.

If you have some photos and pics, please post them to support your argument. I think I may have all my garage pics on My Space. I'll see if that account is still working and see if I have any pics from my teardown.

Before assuming that no one has torn down a motor or, making any inferences that someone is a Bunco artist, sometimes it is a very wise idea to listen.

Here's what I went through.

I'd gone up to pick up parts at my friends shop who has an account with Edlebrock. When loading them into the rear of my Dodge, he noted the cases of AMS oil and totally freaked on me. I was thinking WTF.

But, he was so excited about this that, it was clear to me that he knew something that I didn't and, he was going to show me. He did just that. In his shop were quite a few big blocks torn down and, he proceeded to show me the internals of those engines. He pointed out all the debris and told me all ran synthetics. The engines that ran dino based oil had no debris and they looked as good as the day they went together.

I got home and took the entire top end of the motor apart. I saw exactly the same thing- debris everywhere. It wasn't from not changing my oil out either as some on this site claim. I'm one to change it at 2K before letting it go 4K as I drive a lot.

I reported what I'd seen and, somewhere on this site, there's pictures for that teardown of mine.

Later on, other users on this forum reported (with photos) the same thing during top end tear down at the intake level, lifter valley level, timing chain, heads and valve train- same issue with debris after running synths.

There's also pics that were recently posted by a man who experienced lifter failure. Foreign object debris was clearly evident at the lifter / component level after running M1 as seen in the pictures posted to this site. It is clear that the synthetic oil (M1) did not sufficiently do a good job of maintaining cleanliness of the engine and may have been a contributing factor for probable root cause for lifter failure in his case.


CM

 

IMHO, any product that says it "conditions seals" , whether it be for the motor, trans, power steering, etc..... Is just going to swell seals and gaskets, this works to a point, then you get a leak. I'd stick with regular oil and change it at normal intervals.

 

I don't buy it. I'll bet he has other issues and/or hasn't maintaining his engine thoroughly. There's more to this story than is being said.

 

I used to run that oil too and, I will explain why the oil is as clean as day it went in almost. The reason for that is because, there's no detergents thus, it's not cleaning your engine.

I am still a member of AMS and, I still love their products but, I went through ticking and lifter clack during the summer months with their oils. I've run 0-30, 5-30, 10-40 and 20-50 during summer use in So Cal and, it would clack like no tomorrow at startup due to oil thinning. Winter time it's not nearly as bad as summertime temps out in the desert like climates to where, that oil thins out a great deal.

I sold a case of that to a guy who owned a Chevy silverado despite warning him otherwise. He came back weeks later to my shop asking for a partial refund on the case I sold him. I already knew what issues he had experienced but proceeded to ask him what happened.

Under high loading and under triple digit heat out in So Cal desert, he experienced lifter collapse and loss of oil pressure. He was towing up the 15 freeway over the Cajon Pass and had to pull over and stop. It was clacking like a diesel he said. The oil was changed out back over to Dino SAE 40 for the summer months and all was fine after that.

CM

 

How do you know there's more to the story? While I certainly agree that it is quite possible, it is not always the case and, one should have an open mind, get all the facts and as much information as possible before coming to a conclusion.

CM

 

I've been using synthetic oil for about 230,000 miles now. With no problems whatsoever. It is more expensive. And I probably change it too often. When I did my intake manifold, and valve covers and my timing chain and oil pump at 200,000 miles on the truck, everything looked great. I'd love to know how many miles people are going in between there oil changes? I change mine every 5000 miles.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/cms/in...tpage&Itemid=1

This is a pretty good website for information about oil, it covers just about everything you want to know. They do contradict some of the statements you made about synthetic oils.

I challenge you to get in there and read some of the stuff, it is pretty interesting.

Again this is just my preference and it works great for my truck.

 

Synthetic Oil Life Study

That's another great read chock full of information and observations. Quite honestly, two filter changes for every oil change wouldn't hurt one bit, because the filter plays an important role in removing contaminants. Also, there is still the myth that an engine having run on Dino oil cannot run Synthetic as Synthetic (allegedly) seeps past the seals. Again, all BS. My 2002 Cavalier ran conventional oil for the first 32K miles until I switch to Synthetic, which continued until it was wrecked with 143K on the clock. Like my truck, the engine ran smooth as silk.

 

I've read that before and, I know where your coming from but, you've got to also bear in mind that some of the authors on that site work for Exxon / M1 and are all about synthetics so, it's a bit biased there. I've run nothing but synthetics for the past ten years and, up until last year, I've always run synth based products. I used to run AMS oil exclusively and I know that as a lubricant, it outlast conventional petroleum products and, there's no denying the longevity of their product. The test results show that synths are much better at preventing wear but, what I found in real world use was that it didn't work as well in these engines.

If you look around at other sites beyond the sponsored sites of Bob the oil guy, you'll find statements that support the other side of the argument especially on some of the oil forums and on the M1 site. In fact, when this question was asked on the M1 site: "Is Synthetic Oil Thinner than Conventional Motor Oil" after the end user complained that he was losing oil, this was the response he got from M1 support: "We would recommend switching to Mobil 1 High Mileage 10W-40 or Mobil 1 15W-50. Both of these oils can help to reduce oil burn-off" Those are specifically designed to run thicker and are formulated for higher viscosity. But, looking at the makeup, again, there's no mention of detergents. So, that being said, there is a difference in viscosity and chemical makeup between M1s product line. So, depending on which product one chooses to use, the blow by and loss may be greater than if one were to use another synthetic that was designed to work around this issue.

While on topic of blow by, I used to go through synthetic oil quite often. After switching back to conventional motor oil, I went 3500 miles and dropped a 1/2 quart on a 260K mile engine while towing over the Rockies too. I drive 1000 miles per week and still maintain a loss of 1/2 a quart per month. I used to have to keep cases of AMS in the rear while traveling due to loss of oil and having to add a quart along the way every so often. That was 10-40 AMS viscosity and, it ended up in my intake due to it being thinner than Castrol GTX 40 weight.

I honestly don't know what my engine looked like at 200K. All I know was I took it apart way after that stage last year and it was a mess.

AMS oil ran just as clean after weeks as it did upon initial fill and I thought it was "holding up" better. Reason being, no detergent. It's like washing greasy hands with water- nothing is seen at the sink level. Get some detergents going, and the mix turns black. Same thing with this oil here. It's not cleaning the engine.

Which brand of synth are you running?

CM

 

AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Motor Oil is specially formulated to provide superior protection and performance in a wide variety of demanding applications. By incorporating high-quality synthetic base
stocks and a superior high-zinc additive package, AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil exceeds the needs of large and small gasoline or diesel engines in cars, motorcycles, trucks, motor homes, maintenance equipment, heavy equipment, street rods and marine applications. It is ideal for high-mileage vehicles, vehicles with flat-tappet cams and high-stress vehicles subject to hot temperatures, heavy hauling, trailer pulling or off-road use. AMSOIL Premium Protection Oil resists oxidation, neutralizes acids, inhibits corrosion, reduces wear and protects against deposits. It provides the extra anti-wear protection required by engines with flat-tappet cams and high-tension valve springs. AMSOIL Synthetic 10W-40 Premium Protection Motor Oil offers flexibility and performance beyond conventional oil for convenience and trouble-free operation.

This is a brand that I chose to go with. One of the reasons is, it has a high content of Zinc. This is one of our brilliant government decisions to take this out of all oil. Again if you do read some of the Bob the oil guy content of his website he really does not promote one oil over the other.

 

Lets blow some hole's in this carefully worded BS.


ALL VETTES come FACTORY FILLED with Mobil1 full synthetic. Running any other oil will void the factory warrenty. If anyones has really been around vettes knows this as the fill cap has the MOBIL1 insignia in big bold lettering and can not be missed. Really dont think a vette owner is going to fill with a dino and void his warrenty on his NEWER VETTE.


Tighter bearing clearances running synthetic is false. It is due to aluminum block and heads and the fact synthetic's flow better and keeps the motor cleaner by neutralizing the acid by-product from combustion. Simply put it can hold more s**t in suspension. In fact the 5.9 mopar is a tighter motor clearance wise(rod/main bearings) then the LS motor that is factory filled with full synthetic M1. Really if there were an issue with lifters and Mobil1 full synthetic GM would not be factory filling these motors with M1.

Like i stated in other threads that baked on sludge formation on the components in the pics is from not chaging your oil on time. The pics in the lifter thread are inconclusive cant see anything related to varnish or sludge. No oil is going to protect a over spun motor.

To state AMSOIL has no/lower detergents or syn's in general is bs. Anyone can google that one to rebutt that bs. Amsoil isnt API CERTIFIED on there ATM full synthetic line which is what is call for on the 5.9 5.2 ect. Amsoil ATM has higher levels then M1 which is API BOUND by law. Amsoil IIRC only has one line of API certified oil's.