A little camshaft help please!
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 487
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From: Evans City, PA
A little camshaft help please!
Gentlemen!
It’s been a little while since I’ve really posted here….been busy changing jobs, moving, getting married, etc. Unfortunately, all that has left little money to put into building the truck in the past year or so. However, things are starting to calm down and I’ve started putting together a little plan for an engine build! This will be a fairly lengthy process as we’re looking to get my wife a new-ish Jeep next summer so I have to take that into consideration when budgeting.
Anyway, I’m looking at pulling the engine and doing a cam, heads, roller rockers, and timing set. Here is the relevant info on my truck and motor:
2001 Ram 1500 Off Road Edition (4.10 gears, tow package, stock trans)
5.9L 360 v8, 99k miles
Current Engine Mods:
Hughes Airgap Intake
SCT Tuner
50mm bored throttle body
K&N Air Intake
Full Exhaust (Gibson stainless steel ceramic headers, stainless high flow cat + y pipe, side exit pipes)
Here are the parts I’ve picked out after doing my research and taking into consideration how my truck is used and how I’d like it to perform:
Camshaft -
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...=&partid=30210
Heads-
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...2&partid=25701
Rocker Arms-
http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/Harland_Sharp.html (1.6 ratio)
Timing set –
Full roller performance set of some variety
My questions are:
1) Is it necessary to use adjustable rocker arms on this set up? I’ve read that over .500” lift, you have to use adjustable rocker arms…I’m not sure why this would be the case and I’m pretty set on just sticking with the Harland Sharp 1.6’s and setting the lifter preload properly.
2) Hardened pushrods – absolutely necessary or just good insurance?
3) Any guesses on whether or not I’ll need to advance/retard the timing? I understand the process of “degree-ing” the camshaft fairly well but I’m not real clear on what determines the timing advance or retard. I know they make timing sets with several keyways on the crank gear for this purpose…
4) Any other tips or tricks for this install would be appreciated! I’ve pulled an engine before (gm 3800) and had my 4 cyl tracker engine down to the block but this will be the first v8 I’ve gotten this deep in to. I’m confident in my abilities but really want to get this right the first time. The truck isn’t a daily driver so I’ll be able to take my time.
It’s been a little while since I’ve really posted here….been busy changing jobs, moving, getting married, etc. Unfortunately, all that has left little money to put into building the truck in the past year or so. However, things are starting to calm down and I’ve started putting together a little plan for an engine build! This will be a fairly lengthy process as we’re looking to get my wife a new-ish Jeep next summer so I have to take that into consideration when budgeting.
Anyway, I’m looking at pulling the engine and doing a cam, heads, roller rockers, and timing set. Here is the relevant info on my truck and motor:
2001 Ram 1500 Off Road Edition (4.10 gears, tow package, stock trans)
5.9L 360 v8, 99k miles
Current Engine Mods:
Hughes Airgap Intake
SCT Tuner
50mm bored throttle body
K&N Air Intake
Full Exhaust (Gibson stainless steel ceramic headers, stainless high flow cat + y pipe, side exit pipes)
Here are the parts I’ve picked out after doing my research and taking into consideration how my truck is used and how I’d like it to perform:
Camshaft -
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...=&partid=30210
Heads-
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...2&partid=25701
Rocker Arms-
http://www.mopartsracing.com/parts/Harland_Sharp.html (1.6 ratio)
Timing set –
Full roller performance set of some variety
My questions are:
1) Is it necessary to use adjustable rocker arms on this set up? I’ve read that over .500” lift, you have to use adjustable rocker arms…I’m not sure why this would be the case and I’m pretty set on just sticking with the Harland Sharp 1.6’s and setting the lifter preload properly.
2) Hardened pushrods – absolutely necessary or just good insurance?
3) Any guesses on whether or not I’ll need to advance/retard the timing? I understand the process of “degree-ing” the camshaft fairly well but I’m not real clear on what determines the timing advance or retard. I know they make timing sets with several keyways on the crank gear for this purpose…
4) Any other tips or tricks for this install would be appreciated! I’ve pulled an engine before (gm 3800) and had my 4 cyl tracker engine down to the block but this will be the first v8 I’ve gotten this deep in to. I’m confident in my abilities but really want to get this right the first time. The truck isn’t a daily driver so I’ll be able to take my time.
1) Is it necessary to use adjustable rocker arms on this set up? I’ve read that over .500” lift, you have to use adjustable rocker arms…I’m not sure why this would be the case and I’m pretty set on just sticking with the Harland Sharp 1.6’s and setting the lifter preload properly.
2) Hardened pushrods – absolutely necessary or just good insurance?
3) Any guesses on whether or not I’ll need to advance/retard the timing? I understand the process of “degree-ing” the camshaft fairly well but I’m not real clear on what determines the timing advance or retard. I know they make timing sets with several keyways on the crank gear for this purpose…
4) Any other tips or tricks for this install would be appreciated! I’ve pulled an engine before (gm 3800) and had my 4 cyl tracker engine down to the block but this will be the first v8 I’ve gotten this deep in to. I’m confident in my abilities but really want to get this right the first time. The truck isn’t a daily driver so I’ll be able to take my time.
2) Hardened pushrods – absolutely necessary or just good insurance?
3) Any guesses on whether or not I’ll need to advance/retard the timing? I understand the process of “degree-ing” the camshaft fairly well but I’m not real clear on what determines the timing advance or retard. I know they make timing sets with several keyways on the crank gear for this purpose…
4) Any other tips or tricks for this install would be appreciated! I’ve pulled an engine before (gm 3800) and had my 4 cyl tracker engine down to the block but this will be the first v8 I’ve gotten this deep in to. I’m confident in my abilities but really want to get this right the first time. The truck isn’t a daily driver so I’ll be able to take my time.
May want to install new lifters too since they are cheap.
2. If you upgrade to stiffer valve springs you need hardened pushrods.
3. The timing is adjusted by the ecu. Get a double roller timing set. Advise against the multi keyway version as it's too easy to install incorrectly. The cam you choose shouldn't need valve timing advance. Install cam same as stock. Get a custom tune to advance spark if needed. To minimize pre-detonation install 180* thermostat.
4. Since you're only doing top end build I suggest building it in the engine bay, that is if you don't mind climbing in and out of there. Remove the radiator and stand inside the engine bay. Might save some work.
Last edited by beeker; Jul 31, 2015 at 12:52 AM.
Grand Champion
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 7,435
Likes: 578
Custom cam and aftermarket heads is a yes
Spend the extra $150 and get these...
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...2&partid=27820
larger valves and they flow better then the stockers.
Thread Starter
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 487
Likes: 1
From: Evans City, PA
1. Custom cam and aftermarket heads is a yes, use adjustable rockers, stick with the 1.6 ratio. (Can't adjust preload on a non-adjustable rocker)
May want to install new lifters too since they are cheap.
2. If you upgrade to stiffer valve springs you need hardened pushrods.
3. The timing is adjusted by the ecu. Get a double roller timing set. Advise against the multi keyway version as it's too easy to install incorrectly. The cam you choose shouldn't need valve timing advance. Install cam same as stock. Get a custom tune to advance spark if needed. To minimize pre-detonation install 180* thermostat.
4. Since you're only doing top end build I suggest building it in the engine bay, that is if you don't mind climbing in and out of there. Remove the radiator and stand inside the engine bay. Might save some work.
May want to install new lifters too since they are cheap.
2. If you upgrade to stiffer valve springs you need hardened pushrods.
3. The timing is adjusted by the ecu. Get a double roller timing set. Advise against the multi keyway version as it's too easy to install incorrectly. The cam you choose shouldn't need valve timing advance. Install cam same as stock. Get a custom tune to advance spark if needed. To minimize pre-detonation install 180* thermostat.
4. Since you're only doing top end build I suggest building it in the engine bay, that is if you don't mind climbing in and out of there. Remove the radiator and stand inside the engine bay. Might save some work.
I was planning on replacing the lifters while I was in there anyway and I'll go ahead and add the hardened pushrods to my list...the heads I listed come with an upgraded spring set installed.
Thanks for the info on the timing....makes things simpler. Already have the SCT tuner and I installed the 180* thermostat when I did the intake (forgot to include that)
I really was considering doing all the work right in the engine bay but i'm afraid of pulling my stock cam out and finding that all the bearings need replaced....which i've read per the FSM requires the engine to be pulled to do them all...that being said, I am fairly confident my bearings will be in good shape since the engine is under 100k and has had very good maintenance done.
thanks for the post!
Hardened pushrods aren't neccesarry till you get to well over .5 lift. But, they aren't much more expensive and are good insurance.
Since youre getting heads just have them drilled for studs or buy a stud conversion kit. Than you can adjust the preload. And roller rockers are cheaper.
I would be hesitant going to larger valves since its a truck motor. But it depends on cam selection. Be sure to call the cam guys and talk to them about it. You have good intake flow with the intake and a ported throttle body (get one if you dont already) so larger valves might not be much of an issue.
Every magnum motor I've ever seen has had fd up looking cam bearings. If there are no giant deep gouges dont sweat it.
Be sure to get matching springs for tor cam. Not just "up to x amount of lift"
Since youre getting heads just have them drilled for studs or buy a stud conversion kit. Than you can adjust the preload. And roller rockers are cheaper.
I would be hesitant going to larger valves since its a truck motor. But it depends on cam selection. Be sure to call the cam guys and talk to them about it. You have good intake flow with the intake and a ported throttle body (get one if you dont already) so larger valves might not be much of an issue.
Every magnum motor I've ever seen has had fd up looking cam bearings. If there are no giant deep gouges dont sweat it.
Be sure to get matching springs for tor cam. Not just "up to x amount of lift"
Thread Starter
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 487
Likes: 1
From: Evans City, PA
The head link is for stock replacements #HUG 4370B
Spend the extra $150 and get these...
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...2&partid=27820
larger valves and they flow better then the stockers.
Spend the extra $150 and get these...
http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/p...2&partid=27820
larger valves and they flow better then the stockers.
Thread Starter
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 487
Likes: 1
From: Evans City, PA
Hardened pushrods aren't neccesarry till you get to well over .5 lift. But, they aren't much more expensive and are good insurance.
Since youre getting heads just have them drilled for studs or buy a stud conversion kit. Than you can adjust the preload. And roller rockers are cheaper.
I would be hesitant going to larger valves since its a truck motor. But it depends on cam selection. Be sure to call the cam guys and talk to them about it. You have good intake flow with the intake and a ported throttle body (get one if you dont already) so larger valves might not be much of an issue.
Every magnum motor I've ever seen has had fd up looking cam bearings. If there are no giant deep gouges dont sweat it.
Be sure to get matching springs for tor cam. Not just "up to x amount of lift"
Since youre getting heads just have them drilled for studs or buy a stud conversion kit. Than you can adjust the preload. And roller rockers are cheaper.
I would be hesitant going to larger valves since its a truck motor. But it depends on cam selection. Be sure to call the cam guys and talk to them about it. You have good intake flow with the intake and a ported throttle body (get one if you dont already) so larger valves might not be much of an issue.
Every magnum motor I've ever seen has had fd up looking cam bearings. If there are no giant deep gouges dont sweat it.
Be sure to get matching springs for tor cam. Not just "up to x amount of lift"
Maybe I will just try this install with the engine still in the truck....although it would be nice to have it all the way out to clean it up, check out all the freeze plugs, maybe throw some paint on the block...will the camshaft slide in and out of the engine with the trans cooler, ac condenser, and front bumper still in place?? (all that would come out would be fan, fan shroud, radiator)
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 87,399
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From: Clayton MI
Cam *might* come out with the radiator out of the way...... but, not 100% sure there.
Adjustable rockers on a hydraulic lifter motor doesn't need periodic readjustment. That's only for solid lifters. For your application, it just makes things a LOT easier to be SURE they are adjusted properly. Set it once, and forget it.
If you have any mystery coolant loss, or, see drips from the back of the engine, just pull it, and replace the freeze plugs.
Adjustable rockers on a hydraulic lifter motor doesn't need periodic readjustment. That's only for solid lifters. For your application, it just makes things a LOT easier to be SURE they are adjusted properly. Set it once, and forget it.
If you have any mystery coolant loss, or, see drips from the back of the engine, just pull it, and replace the freeze plugs.
Champion
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 3,891
Likes: 8
From: NorCal
Maybe I will just try this install with the engine still in the truck....although it would be nice to have it all the way out to clean it up, check out all the freeze plugs, maybe throw some paint on the block...will the camshaft slide in and out of the engine with the trans cooler, ac condenser, and front bumper still in place?? (all that would come out would be fan, fan shroud, radiator)
Leave the condenser and bumper.
Might want to double check your valve clearance with that cam and 1.6 rocker. .532/.539 lift is pretty aggressive. Guys on here should know if your okay there.
You could try bolting in your 1.6 non adjustable rockers and see how much preload you have. Don't make the mistake I did with my 1.7s where there was too much preload and I roasted the valve guide sticking a valve.
If you get the adjustable it requires conversion studs, guideplates, and drilling/cutting the valve cover internal baffles to make room. Give the 1.6 rockers a try first, they may be okay, but if you have any doubt that there's too much preload check in here and get some advise.
You may also want to buy the timing chain tensioner, ours didn't come with it.
The EQ heads do indeed have little better flow than stock and thicker castings.
I cleaned and painted my motor in the truck, just cleaned tediously and taped off the internals and gasket surfaces. Lots of room in there to work with.
cam will come out and back in by just removing the radiator.
I got my EQ heads from odessa cylinder head, they matched the valve springs based on my cam specs, giving me different pressures for intake and exhaust.
You could try bolting in your 1.6 non adjustable rockers and see how much preload you have. Don't make the mistake I did with my 1.7s where there was too much preload and I roasted the valve guide sticking a valve.
If you get the adjustable it requires conversion studs, guideplates, and drilling/cutting the valve cover internal baffles to make room. Give the 1.6 rockers a try first, they may be okay, but if you have any doubt that there's too much preload check in here and get some advise.
You may also want to buy the timing chain tensioner, ours didn't come with it.
The EQ heads do indeed have little better flow than stock and thicker castings.
I cleaned and painted my motor in the truck, just cleaned tediously and taped off the internals and gasket surfaces. Lots of room in there to work with.
cam will come out and back in by just removing the radiator.
I got my EQ heads from odessa cylinder head, they matched the valve springs based on my cam specs, giving me different pressures for intake and exhaust.