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are eco-boosts an endangered species?

Old Aug 24, 2012 | 10:16 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by dirtydog
Well, I'd like to see a dyno before I believe all that. Turbo's need to spool up and therefore the power isn't had a low rpm's like a V8 where it matters most when towing.
The curves are out there. They have have broad torque curves and start low.
Originally Posted by hemi4109
Yup. That little v6 really start to develop torque at around 1700-1800 rpm or so. The torque curve comes in early and is real flat. Turbo lag is definately there when taking off from idle but these turbos are small and spool up pretty quickly. I love my Hemi and have it geared to tow/haul *** but I can tell you from experience it won't touch the grunt of that turbo with a trailer hooked up.
Don't confuse lag with boost threshold. Very few turbo engines make boost off idle.

You can make a V8 have a similar torque curve. Here is a graph I made comparing my old turbo setup to an Ecoboost. (I added 18% to my rear wheel dyno numbers to give me a rough idea of crank numbers).
 
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Old Aug 24, 2012 | 11:41 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by jdpartsman
Isn't peek torque at like 2500 RPM on the EcoBoost? I would love that, our Hemis are Soooooo weak on the bottom end.
Welcome to the "one V8 engine fits all" world. The Hemi was designed to be used over a broad spectrum of vehicles - trucks, SUVs and cars. As such, it does really lack the true low end "grunt" that engines designed solely for use in trucks possess. The 5.7 Hemi can be made to be a low end beast, but it takes some modding. Numerically higher gears is a good place to start plus there are a few cam grinds out there that will make you feel like your driving a CTD if you didn't know better...
 
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 07:32 AM
  #33  
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I have a co-worker who just bought an eco-boost. And he just bought a tuner for it. Says its night and day difference. I've heard the gains with a tuner are somethin like 50 horse and 100 more torque at the wheels!
 
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 09:48 AM
  #34  
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Don't forget it's not just boost that gives them such a great torque curve but also the variable valve timing plays a large part in that as well.
 
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 01:12 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by HammerZ71
Welcome to the "one V8 engine fits all" world. The Hemi was designed to be used over a broad spectrum of vehicles - trucks, SUVs and cars. As such, it does really lack the true low end "grunt" that engines designed solely for use in trucks possess. The 5.7 Hemi can be made to be a low end beast, but it takes some modding. Numerically higher gears is a good place to start plus there are a few cam grinds out there that will make you feel like your driving a CTD if you didn't know better...
Numerically lower gears wont do anything to the motors torque curve.
Its definitely all in the cam and intake runners.
 

Last edited by wingnutks; Aug 25, 2012 at 05:41 PM.
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 03:09 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by wingnutks
Numerically lower gears wont do anything to the motors torque curve.
Its definitely all in the came and intake runners.
I don't recall seeing Hammer say they did. Maybe you read it differently.
 
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 06:14 PM
  #37  
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That is correct, re-gearing wont change a thing at the crank, however they get the RPMs up into the powerband sooner and then help to keep it there. So the perception is higher torque and more HP. Plus since the RPMs stay in the powerband there is much less tranny searching.

Plus let's not forget the effective gear ratio when running larger tires. A stock Ram even with 3.92 gears at 31.5" of tire has an effective ratio down around 3.6 when running even 33" tires. I've driven a 4th Gen with it's 390 HP Hemi, QC 4x2 with 3.21 gears from the factory and 33" tires on 20" wheels. The thing was sad to me and running on the interstate at all of 1400 rpm when you give it gas to pass someone the lag is pathetic. Feels like there's a 110 HP 4 cylinder in the thing until you get the RPMs up enough for power to build.

GEARING MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE, even if it doesn't directly effect engine performance...
 

Last edited by HammerZ71; Aug 25, 2012 at 06:24 PM.
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Old Aug 25, 2012 | 06:40 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by HammerZ71
That is correct, re-gearing wont change a thing at the crank, however they get the RPMs up into the powerband sooner and then help to keep it there. So the perception is higher torque and more HP. Plus since the RPMs stay in the powerband there is much less tranny searching.

Plus let's not forget the effective gear ratio when running larger tires. A stock Ram even with 3.92 gears at 31.5" of tire has an effective ratio down around 3.6 when running even 33" tires. I've driven a 4th Gen with it's 390 HP Hemi, QC 4x2 with 3.21 gears from the factory and 33" tires on 20" wheels. The thing was sad to me and running on the interstate at all of 1400 rpm when you give it gas to pass someone the lag is pathetic. Feels like there's a 110 HP 4 cylinder in the thing until you get the RPMs up enough for power to build.

GEARING MAKES A HUGE DIFFERENCE, even if it doesn't directly effect engine performance...
Absolutely! I had a 97 Cobra with a high revving 4v motor (7000RPM redline). Going from 3.23s to 4.10s was AMAZING.
These hemis would do better with a better cam grind and longer intake runners (think the old TPI chevy motors).
 
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Old Aug 26, 2012 | 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by HammerZ71
Welcome to the "one V8 engine fits all" world. The Hemi was designed to be used over a broad spectrum of vehicles - trucks, SUVs and cars. As such, it does really lack the true low end "grunt" that engines designed solely for use in trucks possess. The 5.7 Hemi can be made to be a low end beast, but it takes some modding. Numerically higher gears is a good place to start plus there are a few cam grinds out there that will make you feel like your driving a CTD if you didn't know better...
This is off subject but Id much rather have a cam grind then a new cam.
Where do i start. Pm me if you have to
 
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Old Aug 27, 2012 | 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Five.SevenRAM
wow a 10 grand difference? for maybe 2-3 mpg i really wouldnt consider doing it.
And there it is folks... How long and how many miles would it take to recoup that 10 grand in slightly improved fuel economy??? YEARS. And YEARS. the way things are now, you're far better off driving what you have and paying it off, than you are to chase the holy grail of better fuel economy. Talk about saving money... What if you banked that money you used to spend on a truck payment! Suddenly 4 dollar gas wouldn't be such a pain in the wallet.

It always amazes me how people justify bumping up a monthly payment by a couple hundred dollars to save fifty in gas... It's like preferring to pay a mortgage company 20K a year to keep from paying uncle Sam 4K in taxes instead. I'm all for owning a house, but get it paid off and LIVE!
 
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