Now with all that being said , Try and get that money back out of that HEMI.
Not trying to knock on anyone, I have a Hemi but the resale/trade-in wont be there on a Modified or stock for that matter HEMI. The diesel will retain a better resale any day.

 

Exactly!

And will the Hemi be getting 18 - 19+ MPG doing it? What you can do on a diesel with a simple programmer would cost thousands to do on a comparable gas engine.

I used to be a gas guy. Never thought I'd have any use for a diesel...............then I drove one. Boy did things change quick.

I had a rather heavily mod'd '04 F250 V10. I traded that for my CTD after a rather short test drive. I've driven a buddies Hemi and he's driven my CTD. No comparison.

Off the line, if you know how to launch a diesel, it'll snap your arms out straight, even a stocker.

My father got in my truck and damn near traded in his truck that day after driving it.

If you've never driven one, don't do it....you'll just start spending money.

 

Perspective is one thing, here's the reality.

I did a rather long post and we had some real good discussion about the true cost of owning a diesel and it comes down to this. If you own a truck for less than 100K mile, the diesel hasn't paid for itself. If you keep it longer than that, it has paid for itself and now costs less to operate.

I'm not sure where you are getting that $10K number from, last time I checked the CTD was a $5,555 option. You'd spend that alone trying to add a turbo to a Hemi and you'd also have no warranty. Then to keep it alive and not melting down you have to add bigger injectors, a custom tune to control it, open up the exhaust to make use of the available air, etc, etc.

Basically, a diesel gives you that out of the box.

Not as expensive as it may seem to buy it up front is it?

Also, (I've never owned a Hemi so I have no knowledge of this) what kind of range do you get out of a tank of gas? I know I can get around 550 - 600 in normal driving.

I'm not trying to knock the Hemi, it is what it is. But I think it has a much better fit in a Charger or a Magnum than it does in a truck.

 

Alrighty then...

You cant buy a diesel as an option in a half ton truck, try looking at the difference between a 1500 and a 2500 for the rest of the $10000 as the difference and also make sure you do it between slt's with the same options. You cant buy a 4-door slt 2500 diesel for only $5500 difference even with rebates and incentives. Retail 2007 Ram 2500 Quad SLT starting at: $31,245. Retail 2007 Ram 1500 Quad SLT starting at: $28,900. The CTD is a $5605 option and the auto tranny is another $1095... thats a total of $9045 difference between equally equiped Quad SLT's with the exception of the load capacities and the CTD. PLUS there is a $5000 cash back on the 1500's and only $3000 on the 2500's, so theres another $2000 for a grand total of $11,045 difference. And to top it off there is about a 700-800lb difference between the 2, leaving the diesel on the heavier and far more expensive side of things. Your not convincing me thats for sure AND I can find gas at EVERY gas station EVERYWHERE... that isnt happening with diesel now is it!

My Hemi single cab gets 18-19 on the freeway everytime as long as I dont go over 70 and thats since day one, I have yet to get into a Ram diesel and get the same mileage out of it and I have driven them quite regularly since we buy and sell them all the time... in fact we have a brand new 2500 slt 4-door with the cummins right now and we only get 13-14 around town which is no different than my HEMI gets. Diesel cost about $0.40-0.50 more a gallon right now than gas... extra expense and no duh on the amount of miles you go ESPECIALLY when you have the 35 gallon tank, not the standard 26 gal that comes in the 1500's. I can get about 450 miles a tank in my HEMI's 26 gal unit when I drive long trips and about 350 when I run in-town only.

As said above the whole key to a diesel is longevity. In order for you to get your money's worth from a diesel, you have to keep it forever or drive it well over 150,000 miles to even start to see a return on the investment. If you have a farm or use it to tow and haul heavy loads everyday then a diesel is a no brainer and most definitely the only way to go, but if your doing a daily driver that you plan on driving it in traffic to and from work and such with the occasional tow of your boat or trailer then its not the right truck for you unless you just have money to throw away, which some people do(after all look how many Hummers you see now).

And I am so sick of the way people throw around the term "higher resale value". In fact I think that for the most part people just say that and really have no idea what they are talking about. If you buy a truck that is $23K and another that is $33K then I sure as hell hope that the one you paid $10K more for has a higher resale value than the other. They are both going to lose value, thats a given and possibly at slightly different rates but it will always be relative to the current market conditions. Look with similarly equiped trucks, much like a comparison between a Tundra and a Ram both with the same features and engines size the media will say that the Toyota has a higher resale value. In this case the Toy might indeed have a higher resale due to the public thinking that it for some reason is more reliable and all that when in reality its because the Toy was more expenisive to buy to begin with and also didnt have the rebates to water down the value like the Ram does. Resale is only relative to what one would pay extra for over a like optioned vehicle.

Oh and about the STS turbo... it doesnt void your warranty, you dont need to upgrade or change your injectors, computer or anything esle for that matter. And as long as you keep the boost within a reasonable range you wont have to worry too much about blowing your motor up. The system was $3800 the last time I checked. Very cost effective for the power that it produces, non-invasive, can be self installed in a few hours and removed in about one with no trace.

Also I wanted to add that currently I just paid $2.09 for regular gas to fill up... thats $54 for 26 gallons, the closest station that has diesel is $2.49 making the same fill-up $10 more. I fill-up about 1.5 times a week for a total of 78 times a year. That would be another $780 worth of savings there too under normal driving conditions. That brings the above total to $11825 and that still doesnt take into consideration cost differences realted to oil changes, normal servicing and such. I can almost buy a used 2004 SRT4 with under 50K miles for that much while leaving my truck parked in the garage while spending the additional $1700 for the adds on the Neon which will for sure end up running circles around the diesel.

 

Sure you can get a 1500 for less than a 2500. YOU ARE GETTING LESS TRUCK! That's like comparing a Dakota to a 1500. No where near the same capacity or capability. If you want to compare them, then compare the same damn truck.

Rebates come and go, depending on the time of year, sales, etc., that is nothing fixed. What is fixed is that a Hemi does not, will not, can not make the same power as a diesel whithout significant modifications that WILL VOID THE WARRANTY. I love when guys say, "Well I could remove it before I go to the dealer." You know why I absolutely love that? Because YOU make it more expensive for the rest of us to buy a truck because somebody else has to foot the bill for your playing and then trying to stick it back to the manufacturer. Thanks for letting us know why we pay more for stuff.

At 70 mph, roughly 1900 RPM, unloaded, I'm getting about 22- 23 MPG. If you are only getting 13 - 14 miles out of a CTD, there is something wrong. What's probably wrong is that you're hot rodding around in it and taking peek at the lie-o-meter on the overhead. But go full tank and hand calc it and I guarantee that you wll be getting, at a minimum, 17 MPG. Now, let's do what a truck is meant to do and throw some weight in that puppy. Let's see where the mileage goes now.

As for resale value. What would you be willing to buy? A vehicle that has a known life expectancy to it's first overhaul of 350,000 miles or one that at 100 - 150K is looking at being replaced? That is where resale value comes in.

As for deisel being available. Everyday more and more stations have it. I have absolutely zero problems finding deisel, be it here or any place I've been traveling.

Look at a similarly equipped 2500's. One with Hemi, one with a CTD. What's the price difference? $5,555. Not the 1500, with a stick vs. a 2500 with a CTD and auto. The same damn trucks. $5,555. Now turn around and sell or trade those trucks in a few years, see which sells or trades closer to it's original value. I gurantee you the deisel will.

Now with that, same trucks, same config, etc. Let's race 'em stop light to stop light. Let's talk power to weight ratio. The CTD weighs 400 lbs more than a Hemi, but it produces 245 lb / ft more torque. That's acceleration brother. That Hemi isn't making that torque or HP until way up in the RPM range. I'll give you the top end, the CTD doesn't have the RPM's to work with. 107 - 108 with a 3.73 gear set is about it.

I don't have to convince myself that I bought the right piece of equipment, I know I did. Whatever justifies to you that you have the right piece of equipment, so be it. I'll run my bone stock 2500 CTD against your 1500 Hemi any given day. Hope you like the smell of deisel fumes and looking at an 11.5 rear end.

 

Ahhhhh, my favorite part. How often do you have to change your oil? I can, and still mantain my warranty, go 7500 miles between oil changes. That's 12 qts of oil and 1 oil filter. Now, at 3000 miles and an oil filter, then another, then half way to another.........who's cheaper. Hmmmm?

Now let's eat into that $780 savings that you were talking about. How much to fill your "Neon" [:-]? How much to insure? How much to purchase? How much to maintain?......Gettin the picture.

Look, the gas vs. diesel thing gets real old, real fast. Heck, let's put an end to this. I have a 1/4 mile track not 10 miles from where I live, how 'bout you? I'll get a timeslip and a vid and you do the same and we'll compare it up. Whatcha say. Sounds like fun to me?

 

Its amazing that when I present you with the facts you get defensive and start spewing anti-Hemi BS that has no basis.

Fact: diesel IS NOT SOLD AT EVERY GAS STATION

you can get a HEMI in a 1500, you can only get the cummins in the 2500/3500's

synthetic oil, try using it sometime, you only have to change your oil every 7500 also with it and the HEMI only needs 7 quarts

if my truck is in the garage because I bought a SRT4 to run circles around your diesel, then I would only be filling up the neon, they get 30+ mpg and still use the cheaper fuel.

obviously you didnt learn math too good, if I bought an SRT with the LEFT-OVER money from the difference between the 1500 vs. the 2500 then the payments would be the same as buying the 2500 or did you somehow not catch that?

See what was being discussed was that the diesel was faster than a HEMI could ever be which is BS when you talk about money spent to get there which doesnt require the HEMI owner to waste money on a 2500 that he doesnt need UNLESS you want a cummins. In this case your point about comparing a 2500 vs. a 2500 is mute. A 1500 is every bit the same truck as a 2500 as long as your not using it to tow/haul heavy loads everyday(as I already stated before). Its the same size, same interior, same looks too, it is NOTHING like comparing a Dakota to a 1500(plus you cant get a HEMI in a Dakota anyway) so that makes no sense at all.

I did mention the advantages to buying a diesel if you actually use it, but I think you just like to argue or you would see what I am saying.

Oh and by the way, we arent hot-rodding the 2500 around, we drive it no differently than any of the HEMI's we buy/sell and since you already said that you not only dont have a HEMI or have driven one daily then that leaves you at a dissadvantage in this discussion. Plus since my friends own a dealership that sells DODGE's and I know mechanics at the dealership AND I know the warranty clerk I think my information about voiding the warranty is a little more up to date over your assumptions. The STS system will not void your warranty, it falls into the same class as adding an aftermarket air filter because of the way its installed.

Here does this make you feel better: your right I'm wrong I'm fat your skinny I'm ugly your pretty (I spent less money on my ride and you didnt my Grand National can beat your cummings while I am going in reverse...) gee isnt this stupid, yeh thats what I thought.

ADD-
Looked at the wholesale/trade-in values of the 1500 w/HEMI vs. 2500 w/diesel and for sh*ts and giggles I used 2004 since that is a couple of years old and should give fair idea of the difference: $15,275 for the '04 quad 1500 SLT w/HEMI, $21,550 for the '04 quad 2500 SLT w/Cummins both optioned the same, both with the same miles(42K). Thats a difference of $6275, so where is this better resale value at anyway, all I see is the difference of the engine itself and maybe a hundred bucks or so. I wouldnt have made a big deal about this but since I am in the car business and deal with the auctions on a weekly basis I couldnt resist, after all the numbers dont lie.

 

Wow this thread went sour.

Anyways, I have an update.

My father is a builder and I stopped by his latest house today to give him a hand after work.

Guess who was in the driveway? Yup the pos Duramax that stomped all over my hemi.

I talked to him. His truck has a programmer and exhaust.

He said the only truck that has beat him was a Lightning and he can stay with a new auto tranny Mustang for the first 200 feet. I don't know about that.

 

Anti-Hemi BS? No, just stating that a Hemi will not hold up against a CTD.

Have never had a problem getting diesel. Hell the little podunk station around the corner from me has diesel. It's not like it's nuke fuel.

Sure, you're also talking about getting a car with convertable trunk compared to a truck.

My numbers are based on using dino oil. If you are throwing that number in using synthetic, then you have just tripled your cost for an oil change. On the diesel, go to synthetic or even a bypass system and you're looking at 12K - 15K for oil changes.

Yup, and making a payment on a vehicle that is just sitting in the garage.

If you wanna park the truck and drive the Neon, so be it. That's your choice.

Uhhh, no! Try crawling under that 1500 and taking a peek at the frame, the axles (or on a 1500, the AXLE), the trans, the brakes, etc. A 1500 is a car with a convertible trunk; if you're getting groceries, fine. But use it as a real truck and you're taxing it.

My point wasn't to argue. My point, from the get go, was that I was not surprised that he got taken by a D-Max. They're fast. People have this misconception that a diesel is slow. He found out that they are indeed not.

Hate to break it to ya partner, the dealership DOES NOT void or endorse the warranty. They simply perform the work. Let a claim go in for a melted piston (i.e. lean burn from a turbo), blown head gasket (from more than 7 - 9 psi on a gasser), or a fried valve, etc. Watch what happens when the regional rep steps in and says, "Uh, No!" Try and explain to them that your turbo kit is no different than an air filter and see what they say. Hope your buddy, the dealer, is willing to pay for the repairs.

Yup! As I previously stated, the gas vs. diesel thing gets real old, real fast! I told you my suggestion. I'll go down to my local track, make a run, tape it and show a timeslip. You do the same. I'LL EVEN PAY FOR YOUR TANK OF GAS AND THE RUN FEE! I won't remove my tailgate, my spare, even my toolbox full of junk from my 2500 4WD SLT QC CTD. I'll leave the tires at street pressure, whatever! Let's play. Sounds like fun. Instead of running at the mouth about how fast your pick 'em up truck is, SHOW ME THE MONEY! Otherwise, I'm firmly believing that you bought into the advertising hype of the Hemi.

Show me different.

What gets shown in the blue book and what people will actually pay is two different animals.

If your truck has the go, let's see it. I already said I'm more than willing to go down to the local track, tape it, time it, show the slip. And don't think for a second I'm playing this "Pinks" crap of, "Well give me fender" or "Give me 5 lengths" BS! Run what ya got or keep it in the driveway.

 

Rich, Eric, lets pop some blood pressure meds and cool the jets, aight. theres no need to get this heated.