Wasn't the money that Chrysler took a loan as well? As I understand it, they paid it back, quite quickly I might add.

 

I have not read other forums but I would not brag if I owned another brand. Ford is ok if you want to pay alot for no options. GM brand is bland and no real value for your money. Toyota quality is lousy. I have always said Ram gives you value for your money. My $35,000 TRX4 has WAY more options than any other brand for the money. And reliability is fine, as I have owned several 1500's.

 

Before I bought my 09 Ram I test drove every 1/2 ton truck out on the market and the Dodge won hands down. The ride was better, the Hemi makes tons of power and the fuel mileage is acceptable. Being brand loyal is great but you have to be able to recognize when someone else is building a quality product.

I ride a Victory motorcycle and the Harley guys are the same way, until they ride one and realize that the Victory's have more power, more torque, better brakes, cost thousands less and you wont show up at a ride and see 10 other guys on a bike exactly like yours.

 

So I'll add my $0.02 as a guy who just traded his '05 F250 PSD for a '12 2500 Ram Hemi on Saturday...

As svkb points out Dodge has an image problem in a lot of circles. Some of it's earned (transmissions) and some is projected from their crappy non-truck offerings, but it's out there for sure. I can't tell you how many times I heard "...the only problem with the Cummins is that it's mounted in a Dodge..." and so forth.

Dodge does a bunch of stuff to exacerbate this. The 2500s come up just shy of the F250s in just about every measurable, from ground clearance to axle ratings to GVWR. They don't differentiate the HDs from the 1500s much so my 2500 looks like a half ton to some eyes. They put coils on the back of trucks. They price them a little lower. They warranty them a little longer. It all adds up to the perception of a slightly lower end, slightly lighter duty truck to those of us who didn't bother to look hard at them.

The only reason I looked at Dodge at all was that Ford killed the 6 speed I had on my '05 and I really prefer a manual. (At the end of the day the value prop just wasn't there for a diesel this time and, with the gassers being so strong, I settled on the Hemi.) Having spent a fair amount of time underneath my Ford I could tell that the Dodge was a well-built truck, but only because it resembled my Ford in the quality and gauge of materials (the GMC certainly did NOT).

What sold me on it was the tight, quiet, compliant ride and the really thoughtful, refined cabin. But I had to actually get to a dealer, test drive one, and imagine myself owning it before I could really appreciate it. Someone happily driving their [other brand] truck isn't going to do that.

So it's a marketing problem. If you aren't the longest lasting truck on the road or the hardest working truck on the road then what are you? Right now you're just the other American truck. A darn good, capable, attractive all-around truck that just isn't being marketed right.

But, then again, mix in too much marketing might come up with this.

 

"stlram"
What Victory do you have? I have a 2006 Jackpot, and LOVE it! Wonderful bike, and it sure is fun talking with the Harley Guys!

 

Ford owners are the most brand loyal I've ever seen. I personally know a guy who had a Ford Taurus, bought new and it lived at the dealership. Once major problem after another and I swear in the year and a half he had it the thing was at the dealership more total days than he had it to drive. He finally got fed up with the thing and traded it in - on another Taurus. He never even considered another model or maker. At three years old, after a laundry list of problems (but not near as many as his first Taurus) he traded it in on ANOTHER ONE...

 

Bashing a complete brand is just displaying ignorance in my opinion. Each vehicle manufacturer has some vehicles in their product range that are better than others. To say "Dodge sucks" or "Ford sucks" is just juvenile nonsense. I'm partial to North American vehicles because I try to buy North American products in general...but I don't disparage those who buy Toyotas or Hondas. Personally, I think North American manufacturer's build the best trucks and I don't think any of the GM, Ford, or Dodge trucks are "bad"...I think they are all good. For my own personal tastes, the Ram 1500 offered a better ride, better styling, and an awesome Hemi engine which swayed my decision. I love the truck but pretty sure I would have enjoyed a GM or Ford truck too (just not as much....)

 

I can't say I understand why others are so much more adamant about bashing Dodges, perhaps it only seems that way because you disagree with all their arguments, where as here you agree with the majority of what is said?

I think a lot of people aren't so much brand loyal as they have brand tunnel vision. I know I have had it... when I was a lot younger and driving a Camaro, I lived Chevy, not that I gave anything else much of a chance even though I loved driving my friends Mustang.

When my boss hooked me up with a Ford F-350 as a service rig and let me use it as a tow vehicle, I swore by the Fords, mostly because this truck did everything I asked of it, and if was to have bought a truck at that point, I probably would have looked at an F-350. Then it grenaded and we sold it. (tried to, it's still sitting on the lot)

He replaced it with the 2009 Ram 2500 CTD I use now, and I was sold on Dodge, because it did everything I needed it to and it was still on the road. So when it came time to purchase a truck of my own for towing, I didn't even hesitate to go with a 2011 Ram 2500 CTD and the family and I love it! If I had to replace it tomorrow, I would get another Dodge.

All that said, i'm sure if the boss had given me a GM to drive, I probably would have went that route instead as long as the work one wasn't a POS! (Incidentaly, the 09 Ram has spent almost as much time in the shop and behind a tow truck as it has on the road this year... )

I'm not so much brand loyal, just have brand tunnel vision.

 

It doesn't seem that the F150 forum is any more harsh then any other forum, including us. Most of them seem respectful when a thread or post does arise about the Hemi.

Although having owned an '07 with the 4.6, I find absolutely hilarious finding a thread with several 4.6 Ford 150 owners claiming they consistently have beaten Hemi Ram owners at the track, and on the road. Okay, LOL!

I own two Dodges, one GM, and one Ford. I have always owned a Dodge truck, not saying there perfect, but I've always appreciated each one for one reason or another. It seems I get way more grief though when it comes to warranty work when dealing with Ford. My GM dealership however bends over backwards, which I greatly appreciate, I don't like jumping through hoops.

 

Dodge has made many mistakes that shouldnt have ever happened thru many years of sales, thats why they have the bashing on them like they do. Its surely no secret that they`ve NEVER been known for quality. Service after the sale was always one of their biggest faults, and they still suck at that today. They STILL practice very bad habits of getting things done and done right, as well as quickly. They dont do their marketing right either. They are always last in line to come up with something so great that the compitetion usually just blows right by them, though until recently, they`ve gotten a little better about keeping up with the competition, only because of the hemi. I will admit the quality has stepped up a notch in the looks of their trucks, but they still have a long way to go with ALOT of other things with their trucks. Things like the vendors they use to build their differentials (alot of open gear rearends whining), the noisey torque converters, vibrations within the drivers seats, steering wheels, gas pedals, transmission programming, the worst paint jobs (finding LOTS of dirt in their paint, thin spots where you can see metal) All these little things i`ve described are very important things to most people when they buy/own these trucks. Ther`s nothing worse than coming from a ford or a chevy, only to find they think its a lesser quality truck. If these dodge trucks are of such great quality today, then whos got the number one selling truck, because it isnt a dodge, thats for sure, BUT, the number one selling truck on the road today, i would never buy. Guess i`ll just keep driving this dodge until somebody else builds a better looking truck. Dont get me wrong folks, i like my dodge truck, its the stupid little things that go wrong with it that i dont like. All in all, they ALL have their quirks and issues, but if dodge spent more time listening to their customers, (and taking care of them..!) they COULD become number 1 very quickly.

What i see with todays problem in the auto industry is effecting everything....GREED...!!! They are all trying to get the next best greatest thing out there on the market so they can make huge profits from it and put quality and care to the wayside. Funny thing about that, it will always bite you in the azz later. Quality vs Quanity, which do YOU prefer...! Usually, less is more, just depends on how you look at it.