Should you Overpay to get the last RAM
#61
05-08-2009, 02:39 PM
This is the exact reason I loved "employee pricing", even though dealers supposedly did not like it. I liked it because it took the dealer out of the picture. If you deal with a dealer you're going to get screwed nine times out of ten, ... at least it has been that way with me all too often in the past.
This time was different. I knew the price that Chrysler was selling the truck for was a good price. I had all the incentives laid out in front of me before I even went into the dealership, and I knew the price was fair. I spoke to the salesman for five minutes, which was long enough for him to hand me the keys for a test drive. After the test drive I told him I had to think about it and left the dealership. I called the next day and he confirmed the price they would sell it for. I agreed, and told him to draw up the papers. He delivered the truck to my house, fifty miles away, at 8 oclock at night, and I signed the papers then. He then drove my trade in back to the dealership, and we were done. Best vehicle purchase ever, and if it were up to me we would keep the dealerships totally out of the price negotiations from now on.
Most recent purchase, however, was a Yamaha FZ1 motorcycle just a few days ago. I had called several dealers and got the best price quote. Then I went to the local dealer and talked to the salesman. I asked what they would sell it for, and his price was $1500 too high. I showed him the number I had wrote down from the other dealer and asked if he would match the price. He looked in his computer for about 15 seconds, and said yes. I left to go get the money out of the bank, and they started getting the bike ready. Total transaction time at the local dealership was less than 15 minutes.
Dealers need to stop trying to gouge buyers, and STOP the endless hours spent in negotiations. The GM that posted earlier said we should expect to pay a fair price. I agree 100%, but dealers should expect to make a FAIR profit, which most dealers try to far and away exceed.
MOPWR2U
This time was different. I knew the price that Chrysler was selling the truck for was a good price. I had all the incentives laid out in front of me before I even went into the dealership, and I knew the price was fair. I spoke to the salesman for five minutes, which was long enough for him to hand me the keys for a test drive. After the test drive I told him I had to think about it and left the dealership. I called the next day and he confirmed the price they would sell it for. I agreed, and told him to draw up the papers. He delivered the truck to my house, fifty miles away, at 8 oclock at night, and I signed the papers then. He then drove my trade in back to the dealership, and we were done. Best vehicle purchase ever, and if it were up to me we would keep the dealerships totally out of the price negotiations from now on.
Most recent purchase, however, was a Yamaha FZ1 motorcycle just a few days ago. I had called several dealers and got the best price quote. Then I went to the local dealer and talked to the salesman. I asked what they would sell it for, and his price was $1500 too high. I showed him the number I had wrote down from the other dealer and asked if he would match the price. He looked in his computer for about 15 seconds, and said yes. I left to go get the money out of the bank, and they started getting the bike ready. Total transaction time at the local dealership was less than 15 minutes.
Dealers need to stop trying to gouge buyers, and STOP the endless hours spent in negotiations. The GM that posted earlier said we should expect to pay a fair price. I agree 100%, but dealers should expect to make a FAIR profit, which most dealers try to far and away exceed.
MOPWR2U
#62
05-08-2009, 02:58 PM
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Ok. which part of FAIR profit did you all NOT get? That is what I said. But like I said, look at what you do for a living? Anybody in a construction trade of any kind? Why is it I can get different bids on the same exact job and the prices can vary wildly? Hmmmm, sounds like someone else in America is trying to run a FOR PROFIT business! Is it shame on them? Look at whatever business you are involved in, does it make money? I would assume so since they employee you and probably others. It is not a good business model to sell your goods or services for LESS than what you pay for them. Is it? You have NO IDEA what it cost us just to keep the doors of our dealership open every month. The cost that ANY business has and has to recover somewhere. And just like in ANY business, there are shady people and they will screw you around. I'll be the first to tell you, if that's the type of dealer you're buying from, DON'T. They will be the ones closing their doors.
And just to address the situations that can happen with more money having to be put down the next day and all those types of situations, that is very likely the bank screwing the dealership around. Just getting a deal financed for a customer is a flipping nightmare these days. And it doesn't matter if your a 800 on the credit bureau's. Chrysler Finance is so worthless we can't even use them anymore. We now have GMAC as a captive lender, who knows how that's going to work.
So I'll again just say pay a FAIR profit to the dealer. They cannot give up very nickel they can find and stay in business. The amount of time consumers invest in this process is crazy! What's your time worth?
And yes 94rt10ohio, I'm exactly what I say I am.
And just to address the situations that can happen with more money having to be put down the next day and all those types of situations, that is very likely the bank screwing the dealership around. Just getting a deal financed for a customer is a flipping nightmare these days. And it doesn't matter if your a 800 on the credit bureau's. Chrysler Finance is so worthless we can't even use them anymore. We now have GMAC as a captive lender, who knows how that's going to work.
So I'll again just say pay a FAIR profit to the dealer. They cannot give up very nickel they can find and stay in business. The amount of time consumers invest in this process is crazy! What's your time worth?
And yes 94rt10ohio, I'm exactly what I say I am.
1. First off - I can only imagine what a nightmare it is to run an auto dealership. First gas pops up to $4 a gallon, then the economy tanks, then the credit crunch hits, they your parent company declares bankruptcy. The President has to beg people to buy domestic cars, guarantee warrantees in case the auto company goes bankrupt, offers tax write-offs for new car purchases, gives billions to car manufacturers in an attempt to keep them alive until you guys figure out what to do -- and then to be forced into re-org because a bunch of bastard hedge funds purposely refuse to deal. I think you have all of our empathy here. I also think the sad part about all of this is that I feel the American auto manufacturers have finally started to get their act together and are building much more reliable vehicles with better engines and better gas mileage -- a point which has been drowned out amongst all of this.
2. All of us on this board have invested in a Chrysler product - many of us recently - me just 2 weeks ago. And I live in a small town with one Dodge dealer. I could have driven the extra miles to the big city to go from one big dealer to another - but wanted to give the business to the local American car dealer. I did this on purpose. And I think many who are out there buying Chevy's, Ford's and Dodge's are in the same mindset. And you know what - I think that the vast majority of the people on this site think the auto dealers deserve to make a profit.
3. Getting bids on a construction job is totally different than buying a car.
- Let's say I'm remodeling a couple of bathrooms. I have three contractors come out, tell them what I want, answer any questions and then get three bids. I check out their contractors licenses, past complaints, previous jobs and quality of work. I select the one that best fits me - they do the job. If they screw up and won't fix what I think is wrong I go to the registrar of contractors and file a complaint.
- So I'm buying a car - get a price from the dealer. Go to another dealer, get a different price, etc. Then I go back to the first dealer - he lowers his price even more. I spend an hour trying to get a better price, walk out of the dealership and am followed by the ASM who says if I 'sign right now' he'll give me $500 more for my trade-in (which btw is still $2k less than it's worth). I storm out. Get called later with an offer of free oil changes for 2 years if I come right back in and sign.
4. What I'm saying here is that this is the system that has evolved over the past years - the auto dealers created this system and for the most part the car buyers played along. If you want to get the best price you are, most of the time, forced to play this game. Most people would rather go to the dentist than buy a new car - there's a reason for this.
5. As far as the credit - remember - the car manufacturers advertise special interest rates to entice people to shop for cars. The expectation is that the car dealer - if arranging the financing - will get the best deal possible and keep the customer informed as to what's happening with the deal. I assume that car dealers not only arrange the financing to sell vehicles but also because there's some profit in it for the corporation. But we do realize that financing is tricky now a days - I think all people want is an honest assessment of what it will take to finance a vehicle.
Now - to pull all of this together -- many many many businesses in this country make money - but not Chrysler. Chrysler loses money - a lot of it. Some because 'stuff happens' but mostly because of arrogant short-sighted corporate leadership. We have given BILLIONS of taxpayer money to Chrysler because this country cares about its employees and believes that we need a competitive automobile industry. But - as announced yesterday - the foreign manufactures once again are about to smoke our butts and introduce a mainstream electric car near the end of next year - way to go Detroit! Given the situation that Chrysler is currently in, offering the incentives, employee discounts, other car dealers offering to pay your payments for a period of time if you lose your job -- it is perfectly logical for the American auto consumer to expect extraordinary and perhaps once in a lifetime deals on new cars from Chrysler, GM and Ford. And the auto dealers should be damned happy that there is still interest in their products since the average auto consumer is afraid they may lose their job and are probably near to or underwater with their home mortgages.
#63
05-08-2009, 07:05 PM
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It is a fun experience even as an employee you can still get more,
Oil changes for free if you ask
Undercoating and rustproofing..paint sealant
Tinted windows
bug deflectors, if its on say you dont want it they will most often leave it there
All kinds of stuff. If you ask, you make your deal, if not happy leave go to another dealer tell them what you asked for and most often you will get the deal.
Trick is go to big dealer first...they seem to be the ones with the most admin fees and BS to get extra money...then go to a small dealer in a small town.
Oil changes for free if you ask
Undercoating and rustproofing..paint sealant
Tinted windows
bug deflectors, if its on say you dont want it they will most often leave it there
All kinds of stuff. If you ask, you make your deal, if not happy leave go to another dealer tell them what you asked for and most often you will get the deal.
Trick is go to big dealer first...they seem to be the ones with the most admin fees and BS to get extra money...then go to a small dealer in a small town.
#64
05-08-2009, 07:09 PM
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I want to make a couple of points here.
1. First off - I can only imagine what a nightmare it is to run an auto dealership. First gas pops up to $4 a gallon, then the economy tanks, then the credit crunch hits, they your parent company declares bankruptcy. The President has to beg people to buy domestic cars, guarantee warrantees in case the auto company goes bankrupt, offers tax write-offs for new car purchases, gives billions to car manufacturers in an attempt to keep them alive until you guys figure out what to do -- and then to be forced into re-org because a bunch of bastard hedge funds purposely refuse to deal. I think you have all of our empathy here. I also think the sad part about all of this is that I feel the American auto manufacturers have finally started to get their act together and are building much more reliable vehicles with better engines and better gas mileage -- a point which has been drowned out amongst all of this.
2. All of us on this board have invested in a Chrysler product - many of us recently - me just 2 weeks ago. And I live in a small town with one Dodge dealer. I could have driven the extra miles to the big city to go from one big dealer to another - but wanted to give the business to the local American car dealer. I did this on purpose. And I think many who are out there buying Chevy's, Ford's and Dodge's are in the same mindset. And you know what - I think that the vast majority of the people on this site think the auto dealers deserve to make a profit.
3. Getting bids on a construction job is totally different than buying a car.
- Let's say I'm remodeling a couple of bathrooms. I have three contractors come out, tell them what I want, answer any questions and then get three bids. I check out their contractors licenses, past complaints, previous jobs and quality of work. I select the one that best fits me - they do the job. If they screw up and won't fix what I think is wrong I go to the registrar of contractors and file a complaint.
- So I'm buying a car - get a price from the dealer. Go to another dealer, get a different price, etc. Then I go back to the first dealer - he lowers his price even more. I spend an hour trying to get a better price, walk out of the dealership and am followed by the ASM who says if I 'sign right now' he'll give me $500 more for my trade-in (which btw is still $2k less than it's worth). I storm out. Get called later with an offer of free oil changes for 2 years if I come right back in and sign.
4. What I'm saying here is that this is the system that has evolved over the past years - the auto dealers created this system and for the most part the car buyers played along. If you want to get the best price you are, most of the time, forced to play this game. Most people would rather go to the dentist than buy a new car - there's a reason for this.
5. As far as the credit - remember - the car manufacturers advertise special interest rates to entice people to shop for cars. The expectation is that the car dealer - if arranging the financing - will get the best deal possible and keep the customer informed as to what's happening with the deal. I assume that car dealers not only arrange the financing to sell vehicles but also because there's some profit in it for the corporation. But we do realize that financing is tricky now a days - I think all people want is an honest assessment of what it will take to finance a vehicle.
Now - to pull all of this together -- many many many businesses in this country make money - but not Chrysler. Chrysler loses money - a lot of it. Some because 'stuff happens' but mostly because of arrogant short-sighted corporate leadership. We have given BILLIONS of taxpayer money to Chrysler because this country cares about its employees and believes that we need a competitive automobile industry. But - as announced yesterday - the foreign manufactures once again are about to smoke our butts and introduce a mainstream electric car near the end of next year - way to go Detroit! Given the situation that Chrysler is currently in, offering the incentives, employee discounts, other car dealers offering to pay your payments for a period of time if you lose your job -- it is perfectly logical for the American auto consumer to expect extraordinary and perhaps once in a lifetime deals on new cars from Chrysler, GM and Ford. And the auto dealers should be damned happy that there is still interest in their products since the average auto consumer is afraid they may lose their job and are probably near to or underwater with their home mortgages.
1. First off - I can only imagine what a nightmare it is to run an auto dealership. First gas pops up to $4 a gallon, then the economy tanks, then the credit crunch hits, they your parent company declares bankruptcy. The President has to beg people to buy domestic cars, guarantee warrantees in case the auto company goes bankrupt, offers tax write-offs for new car purchases, gives billions to car manufacturers in an attempt to keep them alive until you guys figure out what to do -- and then to be forced into re-org because a bunch of bastard hedge funds purposely refuse to deal. I think you have all of our empathy here. I also think the sad part about all of this is that I feel the American auto manufacturers have finally started to get their act together and are building much more reliable vehicles with better engines and better gas mileage -- a point which has been drowned out amongst all of this.
2. All of us on this board have invested in a Chrysler product - many of us recently - me just 2 weeks ago. And I live in a small town with one Dodge dealer. I could have driven the extra miles to the big city to go from one big dealer to another - but wanted to give the business to the local American car dealer. I did this on purpose. And I think many who are out there buying Chevy's, Ford's and Dodge's are in the same mindset. And you know what - I think that the vast majority of the people on this site think the auto dealers deserve to make a profit.
3. Getting bids on a construction job is totally different than buying a car.
- Let's say I'm remodeling a couple of bathrooms. I have three contractors come out, tell them what I want, answer any questions and then get three bids. I check out their contractors licenses, past complaints, previous jobs and quality of work. I select the one that best fits me - they do the job. If they screw up and won't fix what I think is wrong I go to the registrar of contractors and file a complaint.
- So I'm buying a car - get a price from the dealer. Go to another dealer, get a different price, etc. Then I go back to the first dealer - he lowers his price even more. I spend an hour trying to get a better price, walk out of the dealership and am followed by the ASM who says if I 'sign right now' he'll give me $500 more for my trade-in (which btw is still $2k less than it's worth). I storm out. Get called later with an offer of free oil changes for 2 years if I come right back in and sign.
4. What I'm saying here is that this is the system that has evolved over the past years - the auto dealers created this system and for the most part the car buyers played along. If you want to get the best price you are, most of the time, forced to play this game. Most people would rather go to the dentist than buy a new car - there's a reason for this.
5. As far as the credit - remember - the car manufacturers advertise special interest rates to entice people to shop for cars. The expectation is that the car dealer - if arranging the financing - will get the best deal possible and keep the customer informed as to what's happening with the deal. I assume that car dealers not only arrange the financing to sell vehicles but also because there's some profit in it for the corporation. But we do realize that financing is tricky now a days - I think all people want is an honest assessment of what it will take to finance a vehicle.
Now - to pull all of this together -- many many many businesses in this country make money - but not Chrysler. Chrysler loses money - a lot of it. Some because 'stuff happens' but mostly because of arrogant short-sighted corporate leadership. We have given BILLIONS of taxpayer money to Chrysler because this country cares about its employees and believes that we need a competitive automobile industry. But - as announced yesterday - the foreign manufactures once again are about to smoke our butts and introduce a mainstream electric car near the end of next year - way to go Detroit! Given the situation that Chrysler is currently in, offering the incentives, employee discounts, other car dealers offering to pay your payments for a period of time if you lose your job -- it is perfectly logical for the American auto consumer to expect extraordinary and perhaps once in a lifetime deals on new cars from Chrysler, GM and Ford. And the auto dealers should be damned happy that there is still interest in their products since the average auto consumer is afraid they may lose their job and are probably near to or underwater with their home mortgages.
#65
05-09-2009, 01:23 PM
Admin formally known as 94rt10ohio
About the profit on vechile discussion, why are we over looking the fact that there is money in service, accessories reselling used cars?
Going to use a bad analogy... Produce deptpartments/stores make nothing on bananas, but it gets people in the store and they buy those melons that they get a 50% profit on.
Dealerships can use the same tactic. The amount of money they can make on services and acessories is insane. Sell the vehicles, get the customer base/rep and provide customer service better than the lots in the area. Then in down times like this one your old customers are still bringing in good profit margin in the service dept, your business is "strong" enough to survive times like this in this situation. Have crappy customer service and attitude to customers and become a unsuccessful dealer.
The other thing to note is if anyone is trying to run a dealership like the 80s you may as well pack it up. It is a different world. Businesses must adapt. Your customer base is not in a 30 mile radius, it is hundreds of miles if marketed correctly. The days of putting an ad in a local Sunday paper is over. Look at your customer base, if you are still 95% local you are doing something wrong.
Maybe, and this is a big maybe, lower overhead with "the new Chrysler" will allow them to lower MSRP's to make the prices more competitve and as a result require less incentives. Until then you need to figure out how can I bring in money other ways, not make a public cry on boards you can not get a "fair" profit on new vehicles.
Going to use a bad analogy... Produce deptpartments/stores make nothing on bananas, but it gets people in the store and they buy those melons that they get a 50% profit on.
Dealerships can use the same tactic. The amount of money they can make on services and acessories is insane. Sell the vehicles, get the customer base/rep and provide customer service better than the lots in the area. Then in down times like this one your old customers are still bringing in good profit margin in the service dept, your business is "strong" enough to survive times like this in this situation. Have crappy customer service and attitude to customers and become a unsuccessful dealer.
The other thing to note is if anyone is trying to run a dealership like the 80s you may as well pack it up. It is a different world. Businesses must adapt. Your customer base is not in a 30 mile radius, it is hundreds of miles if marketed correctly. The days of putting an ad in a local Sunday paper is over. Look at your customer base, if you are still 95% local you are doing something wrong.
Maybe, and this is a big maybe, lower overhead with "the new Chrysler" will allow them to lower MSRP's to make the prices more competitve and as a result require less incentives. Until then you need to figure out how can I bring in money other ways, not make a public cry on boards you can not get a "fair" profit on new vehicles.
#66
05-09-2009, 07:14 PM
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OK, let me try this again. First, sorry that I got off track a little in my earlier post. What I was trying to say is that nobody should ever overpay for something. Also that with all the information available online, in forums such as this one, in magizines, news papers, etc. nobody should ever be unprepared when auto shopping anymore. And that dealers/business are entitled to not just a fair profit, but as much profit as they can get if the buyer isn't willing to walk away on a bad deal. And for the record, I said I was extremely conservative, not a conservative republican. Especially since conservative republicans are getting so dam hard to find no a days 
Jeff.
Jeff.
#67
05-09-2009, 08:43 PM
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OK, let me try this again. First, sorry that I got off track a little in my earlier post. What I was trying to say is that nobody should ever overpay for something. Also that with all the information available online, in forums such as this one, in magizines, news papers, etc. nobody should ever be unprepared when auto shopping anymore. And that dealers/business are entitled to not just a fair profit, but as much profit as they can get if the buyer isn't willing to walk away on a bad deal. And for the record, I said I was extremely conservative, not a conservative republican. Especially since conservative republicans are getting so dam hard to find no a days Jeff.
Jeff.I think the main issue I have is with the statement that businesses are entitled to as much profit as they can get if the buyer isn't willing to walk away on a bad deal.
If you look at personality rating tools like Meyers Briggs or many of the ones out there that are similar (colors, graphs, etc.) all people are different. Some are introverts, some are extroverts, some are cold and callous, some are touchy fealy, some are analytical while others may be maverick in personality.
This assumption means, by it's basic nature, that the way autos are purchased in this country is designed to make the 1/3rd of those with the right personalities work very hard to navigate a labyrinth of confused time tested protocols in order to get the best price available on an automobile.
This assumption also implies, by it's basic nature, that those 1/3rd of the people with the wrong type of personalities are set up to be completely screwed - long and hard - with absolutely no mercy. You know, the old car sales anecdote to 'hold them under until they stop bubbling'.
And while it might seem moral and OK to say that that is the 'way of the free capitalistic market', I think it's nothing more than unethical. What if it's your Sister, or Uncle?
#68
05-09-2009, 10:40 PM
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This is the exact reason I loved "employee pricing", even though dealers supposedly did not like it. I liked it because it took the dealer out of the picture. If you deal with a dealer you're going to get screwed nine times out of ten, ... at least it has been that way with me all too often in the past.
This time was different. I knew the price that Chrysler was selling the truck for was a good price. I had all the incentives laid out in front of me before I even went into the dealership, and I knew the price was fair. I spoke to the salesman for five minutes, which was long enough for him to hand me the keys for a test drive. After the test drive I told him I had to think about it and left the dealership. I called the next day and he confirmed the price they would sell it for. I agreed, and told him to draw up the papers. He delivered the truck to my house, fifty miles away, at 8 oclock at night, and I signed the papers then. He then drove my trade in back to the dealership, and we were done. Best vehicle purchase ever, and if it were up to me we would keep the dealerships totally out of the price negotiations from now on.
Most recent purchase, however, was a Yamaha FZ1 motorcycle just a few days ago. I had called several dealers and got the best price quote. Then I went to the local dealer and talked to the salesman. I asked what they would sell it for, and his price was $1500 too high. I showed him the number I had wrote down from the other dealer and asked if he would match the price. He looked in his computer for about 15 seconds, and said yes. I left to go get the money out of the bank, and they started getting the bike ready. Total transaction time at the local dealership was less than 15 minutes.
Dealers need to stop trying to gouge buyers, and STOP the endless hours spent in negotiations. The GM that posted earlier said we should expect to pay a fair price. I agree 100%, but dealers should expect to make a FAIR profit, which most dealers try to far and away exceed.
MOPWR2U
This time was different. I knew the price that Chrysler was selling the truck for was a good price. I had all the incentives laid out in front of me before I even went into the dealership, and I knew the price was fair. I spoke to the salesman for five minutes, which was long enough for him to hand me the keys for a test drive. After the test drive I told him I had to think about it and left the dealership. I called the next day and he confirmed the price they would sell it for. I agreed, and told him to draw up the papers. He delivered the truck to my house, fifty miles away, at 8 oclock at night, and I signed the papers then. He then drove my trade in back to the dealership, and we were done. Best vehicle purchase ever, and if it were up to me we would keep the dealerships totally out of the price negotiations from now on.
Most recent purchase, however, was a Yamaha FZ1 motorcycle just a few days ago. I had called several dealers and got the best price quote. Then I went to the local dealer and talked to the salesman. I asked what they would sell it for, and his price was $1500 too high. I showed him the number I had wrote down from the other dealer and asked if he would match the price. He looked in his computer for about 15 seconds, and said yes. I left to go get the money out of the bank, and they started getting the bike ready. Total transaction time at the local dealership was less than 15 minutes.
Dealers need to stop trying to gouge buyers, and STOP the endless hours spent in negotiations. The GM that posted earlier said we should expect to pay a fair price. I agree 100%, but dealers should expect to make a FAIR profit, which most dealers try to far and away exceed.
MOPWR2U
On top of that the price for the extended warranty was way lower than I expected. Bottom line - little / no negotiating and I now have a very good relationship with the dealer. Sometimes I drop by to say hi! I've never had that situation when buying a vehicle. It was the first pleasant experience I've had buying a vehicle.
Now - could I have stormed out, did the hardball stuff to save an additional thousand -- perhaps. But my time and my psyche is worth something as well -- and I feel good about what happened. My hope is that the dealer isn't looking at me going "Sucker" -- and I don't think they are.
In this post we read about how dealers 'hate' the employee pricing discount - and I understand why. I just don't agree.
#69
05-09-2009, 11:10 PM
Tell me abour overpaying. Went to a dealer to check out a 2009 1500 4X2 Laramie in Stone White with Back-up camera, ram box, etc. No Navi though. The MSRP was stated close to 33K. With Taxes and other charges for my location Retails was $38,900.
We started negotiating price. I was going up from close to 30, but the dealer said they can only go as low as $37,500. No incentives, rebates or anything similar
I said thanks, but no thanks and walked away.
What do you think?
We started negotiating price. I was going up from close to 30, but the dealer said they can only go as low as $37,500. No incentives, rebates or anything similar
I said thanks, but no thanks and walked away.
What do you think?
#70
05-09-2009, 11:39 PM
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Dealers are just trying to stay alive while all this crap comes along...they need cars to sell too, I was at my dealer the other day picking up and ezdown ram from my tailgate, anyway he was talking delivery of an assortment of ram trucks and another truck full of challenger to which he was only allowed 1. But he got maybe 6 trucks. Not sure but they were not sold I looked at the stickers. No names just the dealer. 5 were sold though, he put sold signs in them as they parked them. He is selling a lot of used cars too and service is still open so things are as usual there I was surprised. This is a small town dealership