Try again, the final year of the F-Body, they sold over 42k in just Camaro's....

Let's also not forget the Trans-Am and Firebird model....30,000

Had the damn thing not gotten to be 34k for a V8 model, it would have stuck around..

Prior to that, from about 1970 until about 1995, the car had sold well over 150,000 units virtually every year..


Yeah, this was more of the downfall of the Camaro there at the end then anything else I can think of. The fact is, they didnt need 3 F-body models.....they could have gotten by with just 1. The Mustang has many versions, but only 1 Mustang. GM should have learned this lesson and killed off 2 of the 3 models.....

 

Clutch failure in trucks that get beat on is one thing, but when a different fluid can do damage, that is pure weak, it means that something in the transmission can be degraded by a compound that doesn't effect any other brand of transmission. Which means that somewhere they made a decision to go with an inferior material. And then after millions of failures, they've made the conscious decision to stay with it.

 

All newer transmissions are fluid specific due to so many more parts than a 3 speed auto such as a 727 or 350 Turbo. These parts are designed for use with certain additives in the fluid as well as a certain viscosity.

Yeah, the F bodies were fast, but poor wiring and electronics makes the rest of the car a pile.

As for the merger, They should sell stocks to the employees and then trade whatever is left to make it a public owned company instead of relying on someone like Cerberus that is in it to make a quick buck and then dump it off to another failing manufacturer.

 

thats a nice idea..i wonder if it is even a consideration...and would chrysler employees buy their stock?

 

As long as it has a Chrysler engine (or has an engine that I trust) and a trustworthy transmission, I will buy it. Translation: if it is a High Feature, High Value, Ecotec, Nissan I4, CVT, GM small block, Northstar, then forget it. I'll shop elsewhere.

DevilsReject, perhaps I'm understanding you or misreading, but GM no longer has a minivan; therefore, their minivan offering is no longer a direct competitor.

Also you said that Mitsubishi made most of the models in the last 15 years that sold. Which models were those? Going back 15 years ago. You had the LH cars which were all Chrysler, the K-based Spirit/Acclaim/LeBaron/Daytona/Dynasty/New Yorker/Fifth Avenue/Imperial, Shadow/Sundance, the Minivans, the Ram, Ramcharger, the Dakota, the full-sized vans. The only Mitsubishi models were the Colt/Summit, the Ram 50, Stealth, Laser/Talon.

A few years after that they had the Chrysler based Neon, Stratus/Breeze/Cirrus/Sebring Convertible, Viper. The only models that were really Mitsubishi were the Avenger/Sebring coupe. Most of these models were Chrysler and I remember the dealers saying that the Mitsubishi models did NOT sell very well. On top of this, we have become MORE reliant (no pun intended) on Mitsubishi with the Caliber/Patriot/Compass, Avenger/Sebring, Journey and these models do not sell worth anything. Chrysler seems to do the best when they make their own models in proven segments.

The G8 hasn't sold very well in comparison to the Charger from what I heard despite the fact that you could accurately say it was a better offering for this year. Considering that it was a brand new car compared to a model in its third year, that isn't encouraging. I'm concerned that Pontiac's performance image has been damaged and would take a lot of effort to revive. Dodge would probably be easier after having years of the Viper, having the SRT-4s, Charger, Ram SRT-10, and now the Challenger boosting up the performance nameplate while Pontiac has been scambling to find an identity going from the Firebird, GTO, to the Solstice, and now the G8.

Dropping the F-body was a mistake, the issue was they put no effort into making the car more livable. The interior was very outdated, they road horribly, the inside was very drab. They really weren't that much more expensive than a Mustang if my memory serves me right. A Z28 was in the lower $20s and the Formula was just a couple thousand more if I'm remembering this correctly. Those were slightly faster than a Cobra while costing thousands less than a Cobra and being priced closely to a GT.

I don't think GM would drop the Challenger. I think they know how well those are going to sell and I think they know that although it is in the same segment as the Camaro, it reaches a different audience and a segment that prefers the areas where the Challenger is different.

I doubt also that GM would drop the Charger. Why kill off a car that is profitable and selling better than one of your newer models? The 300 would be a more likely candidate if Chrysler is dissolved. If Chrysler is dissolved I will be irritated, but I will get over it since in my opinion Chrysler has become a dressed up Plymouth anyhow since it is no longer a true luxury nameplate.

The Aura would be better utilized with a division that doesn't drag its desirability down from 5/5 to 2.5/5. Saturn should probably be given the axe. Pontiac offerings would probably better served as well as Dodges, but maybe Saturn's products worth keeping would fill in the gaps more effectively and both division could survive. I like Pontiac. I would like to see Buick axed and give the remaining models to Chrysler, but as I said before, I care very little about Chrysler since they lost their luxury image. I frankly am more worried about Dodge and Jeep.

Proposals to kill off everything including Cadillac is crazy. GM cannot survive as just Chevrolet. Chevrolet is a volume division. In a market where there are only four major players as there was a long time ago, a volume division is the primary way to go, but in a market where you have tons of major players and more to come. The volume days are over. Chevrolet is the division that needs a production cut. They need to stop putting everything into Chevrolet and put it in the other division that have a higher profit earning capability than them.

I don't like the idea of a Japanese/French company owning Chrysler. I've been burned once by a European company, I'm not about to give it a second try. I'm not certain about Nissan, I don't trust them with this whole CVT thing.

 

I read that Renault was also interested in buying chrysler.

nash211

 

Renault owns 51% of Nissan, that is why it is usually referred to as Nissan-Renault. In an Autoweek article I linked last week, an "unnamed" gm executive said the only vehicle GM would be interested in keeping was the Jeep Wrangler. He said everything else was a competitor to their existing line. I won't buy another Chrysler if GM gets them, because there won't be a Chrysler if GM gets them. Renualt-Nissan would be best because Carlos Ghosn said there is little vehicle over-lap and they would mostly be sharing engineering and design costs and Chrysler would be semi-autonomous as with Daimler (f-ing) Benz. I have hope that GM won't get Chrysler: http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...8/newsletter02.

 

Well, I'm biased, cause I love Nissans. GMs have always been trailer park vehicles to me, so no thanks. Maybe if Nissan takes over and keeps the Dodge name, in 7-10 years you can utter the sentence "I wanted a quality vehicle so I bought a Dodge" and people will no longer laugh at you.

Chrysler does have some great looking vehicles, no doubt. The 300, Charger, new Ram, Challenger, Caliber (dont understand why everyone hated these things but loves those bland Neons), even the Nitro, which I dont really like, you gotta admit they took a chance with the styling. But what doesnt Chrysler have? They dont have an Altima or a Camry or a (god help me) Malibu. Theres no 4 door sedan for Mr and Mrs Joe Average.

Sebrings - now look like Saturns. Abysmal.

Avenger - Absolute garbage.

 

The only people who laugh at Dodge quality are Toyota cool-aid drinkers. Look at my fleet (see my signature) and please tell me which one has a quality problem. So my cars have hard plastic, who cares? Oh yeah, people who are suckers for Toyota marketing, that's who. I was a Toyota tech for 2 1/2 years from 95-98. So, let's talk Toyota quality. How about the 89-93 Camry power window/door lock relay fiasco? Oh, you didn't hear about that? I guess frying old people fit's your idea of quality? Oh yeah, and the 94-95 Maxima 3.0L burning cams? Missed that one too? Yeah, my Cruiser has a hard plastic dash. So what? It's not Toyota or Nissan? THANK GOD! Axe, keep drinking your cool-aid.

 

I love GM. I really like the idea of GM people putting their spin on the dodge ram.