Workers wages the straw that broke the automakers' backs
Legend
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 8,663
Likes: 8
From: Central Oklahoma
Yes how dare those of us on the line make a decent living! Its all our fault. We pick the product we build, we advertise it, we determine line speed, and how much work is on a job(which directly effects quality.) So yes it's we the UAW workers that should pay the price for all these bad decisions. Oh wait, management makes those decisions, not the guy on the line just trying to feed his family. It's the guys making $500,000 -$ 25,000,000 that make those calls. We are not the reason we are in this mess. Here are the main reasons...
1. Americans are too stupid to realize that we are outsourcing ourselves. And we seem to be quite content doing it. Who cares if I'm putting Americans out of work I want my toyota!
2. The American government a. puts on huge regulations to the automakers. b. overseen the complete credit meltdown this year. c. allows huge trade difference with us and other countries.
3. The wall street bailout was a failure. Most still are having a hard time getting financing. Plus it is quite common for large companies to borrow money from time to time. Which is what we would have done, if the banks were actually lending money instead of holding on to it.
4. Poor choices by management. On product mix, and lack of development. But to their defense up until the past year or so Americans did want their full size trucks and suv's. But we should of had a better backup plan.
Here is a very realistic scenario if the big 3 file chap 11.
First of all more likely than not Chrysler will not survive the process. Almost 50 percent of our suppliers will go out of business due to unpaid bills because of the bankruptcy. Almost 40 percent of the big 3 dealers will close. Because of sales tanking. I mean really who would buy a car from a bankrupt automaker? Also those of you that have warranties... Sorry those are now null and void. You are now considered a creditor to the companies. Sucks to be you.
So now with far less sales even more plants, engineers, designers, and such will be laid off. Not to mention all of chrysler. So with all the layoffs that will be oh about half a million to 1 million people out of work directly to the automakers, suppliers, and dealers. We won't even get into the ripple effect.
You think the housing market is bad now? Put a million people out of work, see how many file chap 11 themselves, and foreclose on their homes.
Now lets look at the remaining hourly workers under a chap 11. Lets say the company says instead of the 27/hr we currently make (not this 70+/hr nonsense) now you make 15/hr. So now every remaining autoworker just took a $480 a week pay cut. Thats a $2080 cut monthly, $24960 cut yearly. How many of us do you think would turn around and file chap 11, or 13. How many Billions will get lost in personal, and business bankruptcy? Who knows. The housing market will most likely completely crash, and so will many of the banks we just bailed out.
Oh I almost forgot GM alone has almost 1 million people depending on it for heath care. Guess who that bill will go to after this?
So yeah bankruptcy sounds like a very good idea to me how about you?
1. Americans are too stupid to realize that we are outsourcing ourselves. And we seem to be quite content doing it. Who cares if I'm putting Americans out of work I want my toyota!
2. The American government a. puts on huge regulations to the automakers. b. overseen the complete credit meltdown this year. c. allows huge trade difference with us and other countries.
3. The wall street bailout was a failure. Most still are having a hard time getting financing. Plus it is quite common for large companies to borrow money from time to time. Which is what we would have done, if the banks were actually lending money instead of holding on to it.
4. Poor choices by management. On product mix, and lack of development. But to their defense up until the past year or so Americans did want their full size trucks and suv's. But we should of had a better backup plan.
Here is a very realistic scenario if the big 3 file chap 11.
First of all more likely than not Chrysler will not survive the process. Almost 50 percent of our suppliers will go out of business due to unpaid bills because of the bankruptcy. Almost 40 percent of the big 3 dealers will close. Because of sales tanking. I mean really who would buy a car from a bankrupt automaker? Also those of you that have warranties... Sorry those are now null and void. You are now considered a creditor to the companies. Sucks to be you.
So now with far less sales even more plants, engineers, designers, and such will be laid off. Not to mention all of chrysler. So with all the layoffs that will be oh about half a million to 1 million people out of work directly to the automakers, suppliers, and dealers. We won't even get into the ripple effect.
You think the housing market is bad now? Put a million people out of work, see how many file chap 11 themselves, and foreclose on their homes.
Now lets look at the remaining hourly workers under a chap 11. Lets say the company says instead of the 27/hr we currently make (not this 70+/hr nonsense) now you make 15/hr. So now every remaining autoworker just took a $480 a week pay cut. Thats a $2080 cut monthly, $24960 cut yearly. How many of us do you think would turn around and file chap 11, or 13. How many Billions will get lost in personal, and business bankruptcy? Who knows. The housing market will most likely completely crash, and so will many of the banks we just bailed out.
Oh I almost forgot GM alone has almost 1 million people depending on it for heath care. Guess who that bill will go to after this?
So yeah bankruptcy sounds like a very good idea to me how about you?
I'm sick of this "putting Americans out of work" BS.
The Forum Tyrant
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 27,728
Likes: 3
From: Puttin' Detroit City back on the map.
im pretty sure that the guys running these American companies and American unions are American, so im not sure why the union guys are going around blaming the people who bought Japanese junk. im not sure when "buying a better product for less money" became such an awful concept, but rather than blaming the consumer, how about the car companies struggling make arrangements and adjustments to fix the problem.
dont get me wrong...i wouldnt buy a camry, as i like buying a dodge and fixing the problems sent to me from the factory...
dont get me wrong...i wouldnt buy a camry, as i like buying a dodge and fixing the problems sent to me from the factory...
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 428
Likes: 2
From: Ohio
I think it's all been said already, but when you buy a Honda Accord (made in OH) they are more american made than a Ford Fusion. So when I buy a Honda, I'm actually putting more of my American Dollar back into the American economy than when I buy a Ford...That makes a lot of sense! I say go bankrupt and restructure those wages...and who is that guy complaining about taking a paycut from $27/hr?!!! Right there's the problem, this whole entitlement attitude. If America would wake up and stop thinking that we're entitled to this or that, and just be content for once, we would get over this slump. Of course, the immediate effect will be felt in a continuing downturn of the economy, because no one will be buying anything except staple goods.
The Forum Tyrant
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 27,728
Likes: 3
From: Puttin' Detroit City back on the map.
someone posted in one of the other threads about this the average wages of UAW versus non union auto workers, and with what union workers make, the big three could offer half of that and have able bodies lined up for miles...
Noob Assassin
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 9,447
Likes: 0
Let's just say that the realistic average wage for UAW blue collar workers is $35.....if they offered even $22....half of America would willingly work...
I made automobile glass, and it was far more dangerous and more difficult then the average auto worker's job...and I made $13 an hour to start...
Champion
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 4,664
Likes: 0
From: University of Colorado-Boulder
exaclty, as shoud the auto-line-workers. but if the UAW has anything to say about it...
all comes back to the UAW and their unwillingness to cooperate. it amazes me how they are willing to try and hold out yet not understanding that the more they hold out, the more of the chance that their company will go bankrupt, causeing them to lose more money (basically all of it, if they get laid off) than to take a pay cut and deal with it...
all comes back to the UAW and their unwillingness to cooperate. it amazes me how they are willing to try and hold out yet not understanding that the more they hold out, the more of the chance that their company will go bankrupt, causeing them to lose more money (basically all of it, if they get laid off) than to take a pay cut and deal with it...
Grand Champion
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,468
Likes: 0
From: 45th parallel, MI
Yes how dare those of us on the line make a decent living! Its all our fault. We pick the product we build, we advertise it, we determine line speed, and how much work is on a job(which directly effects quality.) So yes it's we the UAW workers that should pay the price for all these bad decisions. Oh wait, management makes those decisions, not the guy on the line just trying to feed his family. It's the guys making $500,000 -$ 25,000,000 that make those calls. We are not the reason we are in this mess. Here are the main reasons...
1. Americans are too stupid to realize that we are outsourcing ourselves. And we seem to be quite content doing it. Who cares if I'm putting Americans out of work I want my toyota!
2. The American government a. puts on huge regulations to the automakers. b. overseen the complete credit meltdown this year. c. allows huge trade difference with us and other countries.
3. The wall street bailout was a failure. Most still are having a hard time getting financing. Plus it is quite common for large companies to borrow money from time to time. Which is what we would have done, if the banks were actually lending money instead of holding on to it.
4. Poor choices by management. On product mix, and lack of development. But to their defense up until the past year or so Americans did want their full size trucks and suv's. But we should of had a better backup plan.
Here is a very realistic scenario if the big 3 file chap 11.
First of all more likely than not Chrysler will not survive the process. Almost 50 percent of our suppliers will go out of business due to unpaid bills because of the bankruptcy. Almost 40 percent of the big 3 dealers will close. Because of sales tanking. I mean really who would buy a car from a bankrupt automaker? Also those of you that have warranties... Sorry those are now null and void. You are now considered a creditor to the companies. Sucks to be you.
So now with far less sales even more plants, engineers, designers, and such will be laid off. Not to mention all of chrysler. So with all the layoffs that will be oh about half a million to 1 million people out of work directly to the automakers, suppliers, and dealers. We won't even get into the ripple effect.
You think the housing market is bad now? Put a million people out of work, see how many file chap 11 themselves, and foreclose on their homes.
Now lets look at the remaining hourly workers under a chap 11. Lets say the company says instead of the 27/hr we currently make (not this 70+/hr nonsense) now you make 15/hr. So now every remaining autoworker just took a $480 a week pay cut. Thats a $2080 cut monthly, $24960 cut yearly. How many of us do you think would turn around and file chap 11, or 13. How many Billions will get lost in personal, and business bankruptcy? Who knows. The housing market will most likely completely crash, and so will many of the banks we just bailed out.
Oh I almost forgot GM alone has almost 1 million people depending on it for heath care. Guess who that bill will go to after this?
So yeah bankruptcy sounds like a very good idea to me how about you?
1. Americans are too stupid to realize that we are outsourcing ourselves. And we seem to be quite content doing it. Who cares if I'm putting Americans out of work I want my toyota!
2. The American government a. puts on huge regulations to the automakers. b. overseen the complete credit meltdown this year. c. allows huge trade difference with us and other countries.
3. The wall street bailout was a failure. Most still are having a hard time getting financing. Plus it is quite common for large companies to borrow money from time to time. Which is what we would have done, if the banks were actually lending money instead of holding on to it.
4. Poor choices by management. On product mix, and lack of development. But to their defense up until the past year or so Americans did want their full size trucks and suv's. But we should of had a better backup plan.
Here is a very realistic scenario if the big 3 file chap 11.
First of all more likely than not Chrysler will not survive the process. Almost 50 percent of our suppliers will go out of business due to unpaid bills because of the bankruptcy. Almost 40 percent of the big 3 dealers will close. Because of sales tanking. I mean really who would buy a car from a bankrupt automaker? Also those of you that have warranties... Sorry those are now null and void. You are now considered a creditor to the companies. Sucks to be you.
So now with far less sales even more plants, engineers, designers, and such will be laid off. Not to mention all of chrysler. So with all the layoffs that will be oh about half a million to 1 million people out of work directly to the automakers, suppliers, and dealers. We won't even get into the ripple effect.
You think the housing market is bad now? Put a million people out of work, see how many file chap 11 themselves, and foreclose on their homes.
Now lets look at the remaining hourly workers under a chap 11. Lets say the company says instead of the 27/hr we currently make (not this 70+/hr nonsense) now you make 15/hr. So now every remaining autoworker just took a $480 a week pay cut. Thats a $2080 cut monthly, $24960 cut yearly. How many of us do you think would turn around and file chap 11, or 13. How many Billions will get lost in personal, and business bankruptcy? Who knows. The housing market will most likely completely crash, and so will many of the banks we just bailed out.
Oh I almost forgot GM alone has almost 1 million people depending on it for heath care. Guess who that bill will go to after this?
So yeah bankruptcy sounds like a very good idea to me how about you?
Either way I see it the taxpayer ends up being screwed.
Record Breaker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,513
Likes: 0
From: Warren MI. Home to Rams and Dakotas
How have we been uncooperative? We dang near gave them everything in the last contract. We even sold out the next generation of workers. Non core that is. A new hire that is not a core worker will only make 14/hr with no pension benefits, and little health care. All of our deductibles went up. We gave up all raises. I haven't had a raise in almost 2.5 years. How many of you can say that? I'll comment on the rest of you cheering on the demise of the big three after I get home from work where I make 28/hr, not 35, or 70, or 78 or whatever the news says we make.
By the way D, like I told nofrag in another thread, it gets so much easier to push a ram crew/quad cab around to bolt it to the frame. By the 450th truck for the night that cab is so easy to push around! ;(
By the way D, like I told nofrag in another thread, it gets so much easier to push a ram crew/quad cab around to bolt it to the frame. By the 450th truck for the night that cab is so easy to push around! ;(