Hello everyone, I am restoring a '73 Challenger and the exhaust is rusted through. Ive been comparing headers and wondered if anyone knows which brand offers the most horsepower and torque out of Dynomax, Flowtech, Hedman, and Hooker. All four brands have a 3" collector width. I plan to get the complete Flowmaster exhaust system put behind those headers, let me know what you all think.

 

i have a 340 with flowtech headers through a flowmaster system, and i am very happy with them...and if im not mistaken, the flowtechs are much cheaper than the others...at least hooker

 

I went with Hedman Elite for my 73 with a 440. They are a quality piece and come with ball flange connections which are less prone to leak. I am also running the Flowmaster set-up. I had Dynamax and don't recommend them. About the only good thing I can say is that the ceramic coating held up, even though I had to beat, bend and torture them to fit. Still had some rubbing. TTI's are the best but cost $$$$.

 

I'd suggest TTI if you want to do it the best way you can. Their 1 5/8"-1 3/4" stepped small block headers work great on the street as well as on my race car running mid 11's. They can be coated inside as well as outside for the most protection and insulation to keep the heat inside the tubes. Rust can start inside and reduce flow over time which hurts performance.They are THE best fitting headers available and don't require the use of a 90* oil filter adapter like some other brands may. They have the whole, matched system with options.

TTI Exhaust web page

 

while i am sure that the TTI headers are the best, and I have heard lots of people talk them up, I dont consider $604-$722 worth the cost. In all fairness, how much horsepower increase do you think that you get? locomotion, did you happen to run a different header before the TTI, and if so, was there any hp difference? it just seems to me that a price difference of 604 for the TTI, as compared to maybe 200 for a set of holley flowtechs is 404 dollars that could be spent to free to hp elsewhere...especially for someone who is on a budget, and is trying to squeeze more hp out of their buck.

i am not arguing with you, so please dont take it as such..i am just curious as to your opinion of the TTI vs say flowtech, with the price considered.

also, youre running mid 11s with a small block? what cubic inch? i see a norwalk picture on your webpage, and ive done a bit of racing there, usually at the mopar events...but your car doesnt look familiar..what class are you running?

 

I race in IHRA Stock with a 360/300hp Commando crate motor. The class basically allows past or present IHRA-approved crate engines that have the usual Stock Eliminator modifications, in addition to any readily available, unmodified 4 barrel aluminum intake and 750 Holley carb. Unfortunately, my IHRA national/divisional schedule and budget doesn't allow many special events, especially far away. So the only time I race at Norwalk is at the IHRA World Nationals.

As for the TTI headers, I understand your curiosity as to why I think they are worth it.
TTI's are usually made with thicker materials and have the factory option of being coated outside as well as inside! The inside coating provides a second insulating layer to keep the heat inside instead of in your engine compartment. It also helps maintain their performance because it helps keep the insides from rusting! As the tubes rust, it affects exhaust flow because of the rougher surface. Sometimes it's better to spend more for a higher quality product initally becaue it may save time and money later. Same thing with synthetic oils. I like the benefits enough to feel the extra cost is worth it. Some people do have regular, uncoated headers that have lasted a long time. Regular driving and garage parking help header life and a well prepped, quality hi-temp paint job may be enough. It just depends on many things so each individual has to decide if it's worth it for them.

I never was able to make a fair, back-to-back comparison between TTI and other brands because I switched several things at once. It gets even more difficult because a change like headers can also affect optimum jetting, converter stall/flash, etc. I've never had my engine or car on any dyno. But I have seen several fast crate engines in IHRA using them and many other IHRA and NHRA Stockers usings custom stepped headers that start out pretty small. So my decision was based on research and I've been happy with the results even though I don't personally have any specific numbers. Racing is expensive enough so I try to use parts that will help me run faster. While most Stock racing is handicapped, there are occasional heads-up races during eliminations when like-classed cars within Stock meet up.

Mopar Muscle Magazine did an interesting dyno test with a variety of small block exhaust manifolds and headers. While some gains are not big, they tend to be across the board. "Area under the curve" is important in many comparisons, including head flow, torque and HP numbers.

Mopar Muscle exhaust dyno tests.

 

hmm..i do agree with you about the synthetic oils. I think that the added gain from the header is interesting, but would you agree with my "building on a budget" idea, where the small gain from the headers costs money that could be spent elsewhere?

How far above 300hp do you think that you are now, or does that 300hp number include things like the headers? what cam and intake do you run? I am very interested in what all you have done to run those times with a non-"stroker" small block, and i didnt see it on your site..i hope that you dont mind me asking.

 

Thanks, I'm flatter that you're asking.

But it's basically a stock-lift cam (for that crate motor) at .474" with a lot of duration, as recommended by Comp Cams. Springs are near 400lbs open with Schubeck hydraulic lifters. (The lifters are probably the trickest and most expensive item in the engine.) No porting or polishing. Does have aftermarket flat-top pistons - same weight and design as the originals and with low tension oil rings, honed with deck plates and internally balanced. Eagle H-beams rods are on the legal replacement list. Little details, like blueprinting to min. specs. (Deck heights, combustion chamber volumes, etc. ), careful valve job within IHRA/NHRA specs and a lot of fine tuning with the carb, converter, gears, suspension, etc. get it to run well. Having a very good machinist who is familiar with Stock and SS racing helps a lot. But there are other guys with similar Commando or Magnum engines that have more "resources" and are faster. Luckily, they have lighter cars and end up in faster classes based on their HP/weight ratio. So I won't have to race most of them heads-up if we should meet in eliminations.

I've tried the edelbrock Air Gap and have recently run a Weiand Stealth and Holley Strip Domintor. But I haven't found a clear winner yet. I shift around 6,300-6,600 and go through about the same range, depending on set-up. 904 trans and 4.56 gears. But I hear higher and lower numbers for everything from different sources. Every combo is different and it's hard to know what works "best" without eventually trying it yourself. I know I have more HP to find. Just gotta keep looking.

I've seen formulas that put my HP at between 400 and 425 based on my mph and 3,530 lb race weight. I guess rear-wheel HP would be less.

Depending on your budget, I can see where TTI may not be affordable. In racing, I try to find a little edge here and there even if it's not the best HP per dollar spent. But with the rules we have, most of the big gains are well known by everyone, or illegal, so we have to look for smaller gains.. There are some guys in Stock that spend $1,500 and more on custom stainless headers. Try them out, then get a slightly different set made to try!

Gotta work early tomorrow!

 

Chrysler's engineers spent thousands of dollars designing the exhaust manifolds on the big blocks. the little gain you get from headers, on a stock car, does not justify the cost. We are not dealing with GM and Ford that just put a piece of cast iron on the head to get the exhaust out of the engine compartment. In fact the 440 magnums came from the factory with tuned exhaust manifolds that flow just as good as a set of headers.

 

TTI has the best exhaust. As far as headers go it would be a tough call between TTI's and Hooker Super Comps.