so from your comments, you last 3 people on here, japanes offer stuff we don't, american cars are krap, and customer satisfaction suck? wow, quit reading the motor trend would u

Japanese offer 350z you said, we have nothing to match that? Ever heard of maybe a sky red line? solstice? what's so special about the 350z? it's a fat roadster with300hp engine. is that irreplacable? is that some monumental iconic car?please. it does 0-60 in mid 5s, redline does it in mid 5s and is cheaper, and i think looks better.

The other guy who said american cars are krap huh. Well that's a load of krap. I'd like to see you back that up with something other than twisted liberal bias. have you bought any good american vehicles in the last few years? no not a krapper saturn ion or chevy cavalier, i man a real vehicle? well i bought a new decked out accord in 05(the motor trend car of the year, what a joke), that was the biggest piece of krap my family has ever owned, and we've had nearly 20 vehicls in the last 10 years. The dash never fit right, the sunroof leaked, the leather came unstiched, the thing rode like a tank, the trunk bowed in when you put groceries in,paint was paper thin, chipped with any little rock. had more chips in 1 month that i have on my stang that's 6 yrs old. and that was only 1 month of pampered ownership. talk about krap, that's krap. and justso u don't call it a lemon, it was identical tothe new one we tried in the 80s, same defects.you seen the recalls from hondas and toyotas lately? probably not, ur probably wathcing nbc or abc who never show foreign failure, only ours. So then people like u spout all over the internet that detroit makes krap. That's krap. BACK IT UP
Saturn aura-north american car of year silverado-north american truck of year

the next thing about customer service. Duh, ever heard of dealerships being differnet from one to the next? hello? so one dealership is stubborn therefore u think all detroit has bad customer service? wow, talk about overgeneralization. We tried to get our honda fixed alot of the time, they never wanted to touch it. Brand new, and they wouldn't fix it. hows that for satisfaction? NOw we have a brand new ram, best vehicle ever owned, best customer satisfaction ever had.

and whoever said the warranty thing of 3/36000 is full of krap. DOes anyone member the 10/100000 warranty from all GM? hello? dont see toyota or honda doin that do u?

and for those who said who cares if i lay off a detroit worker. well guess what, if detroit falls, the economy falls, the country gets screwed. so maybe you can see that in the real world, actions have consequences. it's not just a gentle lay off scheme where everybody is ok.
and it is a slap in the face. sure your free to choose, ur also free to shoot yourself tomorrow, gonna do that too? you should know better than to endorse other countries on issues this big. but ur probabl a liberal who likes other countries more than our own

wow i'm tired of filling info that you'll never get, it's like ur all brainwashed to think foreign makes good vehicles and detroit makes krap. when did this start? i member a day when people bought toyotas and were laughed at.

 

Dude, do you even read posts before going and shooting off your mouth? Have you ever made an intelligent argument?

Screw this, its like trying to convince that drunk crazy guy on skid row that tree he's talking to doesnt smell purple...

 

I'm with you Grung, it's like trying to talk with a five year old, he just spouts off a bunch of stuff without having a clue what he's even talking about.

 

you guys are full of krap. since when don't i know what i'm talkin about. YOU DON'T know what ur talkin about. how many new vehicles have you had in the last 10 years? i talk from experience, lots of it. And yes, I adressed the things exactly in the posts before, hello? did u even read them? not like i just made up claims from you guys, i can go back and site them if your not capable of remembering it.

quote from shiltz"Actualy there is plenty of reasons to buy foreign cars, a large chunk of what detroit puts out is crap now adays"
quote from grung"Its not a slap in the face to anyone to exercise their ownfreedom of choice, thats what america's supposed to be all about"
quote from grung"And we have nothing along the lines of the 350Z "
quote from shiltz "they don't stiff you on the warrant with the pitifull 3/36 detroit gives"

so aparently I didn't read the last posts huh?
it seems mostly that shiltz is doing nothing but spouting off the bs, I give facts, there's a difference. Grunge you say some good things, until your last comment anyway.
"Dude, do you even read posts before going and shooting off your mouth? Have you ever made an intelligent argument?

Screw this, its like trying to convince that drunk crazy guy on skid row that tree he's talking to doesnt smell purple.."

do you even read posts before you shoot off your moth grunge? since i started this thread i think i would know what has been said! and who was the dude who dragged this stupid thread out of the grave. It's been dead like 3 months after we resolved our arguing, then some bored internet browser had to drag it up and start all over again, wow. Your never going to change my mind, no matter what you say. I refute your arguments, and so you get angry and whine like everybody else. Can anybody accept they're wrong? Guess not. it's like talking to spoiled children who cry when told no.

and for you shiltz here's what you said "I'm with you Grung, it's like trying to talk with a five year old, he just spouts off a bunch of stuff without having a clue what he's even talking about. "
do you know what your talking about? how about your warranty claim of detroit only giving 3/36000, there's one wrong, and you say that detroit puts out krap, well back that up. Why don't you take your own advice for once. I know what I"m talking about, do you? I don't think so, you hear something or read something so you form an opinion, I use the products, buy them new and then form opinions, you need to spend some time looking at FACTS. If you'd like to debate who's smarter, the pre-med valedictorian awaits your invitation.

why don't people say how many of theseNEW "krappy detroit" and "quality japanese made" vehicles they've had. Try beating my families 20 in 10 years. What have you guys had like2 or 3 new maybe?i would like you to list all your "experience" with these new cars, not your opinions.

and who was it that said you get a better value from japanese and german made? wow, has anybody priced out a german made car lately? a mercedes, bmw, or audi? Those are some of the most expensive cars out there, and what do you get that's so awesome? a name. you can buy a cadillac for much cheaper and find the same luxury.

 

**Sigh*** Why not?

'84 Dodge Ram 4x4: My dad still owns it. Excellent classic 4x4 and great hobby truck for the past 17 years

'78 Jeep CJ-7 with swapped in AMC 360: Great rig, the first that was actually MINE. Sucked gas like Kate Moss sucks coke, but up till 3rd gear it'd leave anythingstaring at the tail lights.

'81 Jeep CJ-7: I was the 2nd owner, wish I hadnt flipped it 4 times in an ice storm. Solid rig that literally saved my life with nothingworse than a seatbelt bruise and the hellish experience of my next vehicle:

'87 Ford Ranger: Steaming pile of C-R-A-P. EFI V-6 and 5 spd in a 2wd reg cab, swbtruck with skateboard sized wheels but my sisters big wheel would smoke it. Got stuck in 1 inch of mud, rear bumper pretzeled by gentle tug from '84 Dodge trying to free it. Fried the clutch at 87K miles and lost almost $1500 in value within only 13 months of this pile stinking up my driveway.

'85 Jeep Scrambler: Bought for $4500, with 55K original miles on it. Had lots of minor body damage, all the miles were off road on on someones hog farm, winch and tow package WELL used, and I rode it hard and put it away wet for 3 years and 60K more miles. Water pump, 1/2 softop and new tires were the only non-normal maintenance I had to do. Sold for $5600 about 3 hours before recieving a phone call offering me $8000 sight unseen.

'85 Toyota Supra. Was actually my sister's car, I drove/sold it for her while I was between Jeeps. Clearcoat went bad, and fried a wiper relay ($40 part for my Jeep, $350 for hers!) but even with an automatic I smoked many a fwd ricer. For a 13 y/o car with 120K miles it handled like it was on rails and everything was tight as a drum.

'95 Jeep Wrangler: 2.5 4 cyl and 5 speed that that puked up 5th gear at 89K miles. NEVER buy a 4cyl Jeep, people. The tranny is 1/2 the size of the 6 cyl model and 4 cans is no where near enough beans for this kind of rig. 32" tires didnt help. Still, in 6 years and putting 90K miles on it, this was the worst it treat me.

'94 Pontiac Grand Prix widebody coupe: Another car I drove/sold for my sister while between Jeeps. The most well made GM car Ive ever seen, but still disapointing. 3.1 V-6 slightly less powerful than a squirrel with asthma, and the interior made by fisher price. needed total re-do of the tranny at 90K miles. $1500.

'00 Jeep Wrangler Sport. My current rig. Excellent machine, unstoppable off road, looks hot and rock-reliable. Got burned by leaky radiator tank, out $300, but Ive owned it for 4 years and thats been the only problem.

So there. All cars are made by humans so some are crap, others are great. Doesnt matter who built it.

 

wish you guys would have listened and listed NEW vehicles from the dealership not stuff from the 70s, as our discussion has absolutely nothing to do with 70s 80s or most of the 90s. I've talked about NEW FROM DEALER VEHICLES nothing preowned or used, nothing. So try again, and we'll see how many of you guys have these new vehicles straight from the factory and know what your talking about.

 

Any new car should be perfectly reliable for the first couple years, so that doesnt prove a thing.

On the other hand once its been around the block a few time, then it becomes obvious what holds up and what doesnt.

Whats my incentive for buying brand new anyway? Do you love depreciation that freakin much? Was the search for a high volume car like an accord busting your chops that much? They only have like 10 of them on any given used car lot.

Consider this: My current rig is the '00 TJ from above. The new price of this truck wouldbe about $20K. I bought it in '03 with 30K miles. They wanted $18K, I browbeat and abused the salesman for 3 hours until I got it for $14K (the KBB private party price at that time for a bone stock Wrangler Sport equipped like mine.).I scored it with a 2.5" BDS lift, JKS disconnects, tow package, 33" sumitomo tires, and 10 hole, 15X10" wheels with wheel locks. Give or take thats about $2500 in accessories. On KBB right now, the private party value is $9600 for good condition, $10,300 for excellent with my mileage. Mine falls somewhere in between excellent and good. So you go ahead and buy brand new. Ill wait for you to take the fall on the trade in. If its still tight and feels solid with a few miles on it then I know its a well made vehicle.Then Ill buy for cash money and score a deal, take the savings and trick it out how I like...

 

still wondering how yourdescription of this vehicle has to do with our discussion. NObody can direclty anwer my request because nobody has these new vehicles AND KNOW WHAT THEIR TALKIN ABOUT. YOu just guess their better, or you hear that toyota or hondais better, nobody actually experiences this themselves. It's improtant to have a brand new car if your talking quality because duh previous owners might have done many many things to it and you don't know, so second owner disqualifies you from knowing if it's quality or not. And I don't know what this is about me taking a hit with new vehicles. woopty dooh. If you can't afford it, then don't whine to me about it.

How can you compare vehicles when yours aren't about the new stuff coming off the line the last few years and something that is only new and hasn't been tinkered with. If it's preowned it could have been abused and then you think it's a krappy vehicle. Hello? that's why we compare new only. And the part about the accord busting my chops, I can't even begin to understand what your saying with that? it's like you've gone totally off topic into wonderland.
and NO, new doesn't mean it's always reliable or quality. Did you even read my post of our new accord, here it is again for you since you read these so well......
"well i bought a new decked out accord in 05(the motor trend car of the year, what a joke), that was the biggest piece of krap my family has ever owned, and we've had nearly 20 vehicls in the last 10 years. The dash never fit right, the sunroof leaked, the leather came unstiched, the thing rode like a tank, the trunk bowed in when you put groceries in,paint was paper thin, chipped with any little rock. had more chips in 1 month that i have on my stang that's 6 yrs old. and that was only 1 month of pampered ownership"
so next time you think new is reliable and quality, think again.
ok that's enough for me, this topic has been argued so much I'm sick of repeating myself to people who can't remember anything. obviously you can't debate this in an intelligent matter, you can only ask me random off topic questions and give me pretty descriptions about some random jeep. funny you have all that invested in a jeep and yet like the rice, where does your support come from besides things u hear and see? when did you experience this foreign quality? I'm betting never, like most people, they just say what they hear.....

 

All your rambling aside, I dont in fact 'like the rice'. As Ive stated before, I prefer american cars. But I dont just blindly write off anything not built from the big 3 as garbage either.My support for stylish high performance cars comes from thefact that Im a young single guy and when it comes to cars (as opposed to trucks)thats what young single guys like.Ive test driven both a Mazda RX-8 and '05 Mustang. Both of those are excellent cars. Both were tight, fast, handled well and had killer looks. They're totally different cars, event though each is a performance car that costs about $30K and you'll get what you pay for either way.

The whole 'search for an accord busting your chops' thing was this: There are zillions of those sitting around with almost no miles on them on every car lot in town. What can a new one costing thousands more really offer you? I can understand buying new with a Jeep or Mustang where there are a whole bunch of meaningful options like engine size, suspension, and various other options that totally change the vehicle. What options are there really on a midsize family car? cloth or leather, beige or grey paint and what else? Alloy wheels or wheel covers? Nothing that would make or break the sale. Guarantee that 90% on the road are practically identical. So why buy a new one? On something like that you'd just be throwing money away since if you go to sell it there will be thousands of others trying to sell one too.Cars like that are appliances and people shop for them just the same: Whats the cheapest, and will it get me from point A to point B? Does it come in beige?

 

all i can say is buy the mustang, lol. It's a classic vs just another foreign name. One commands respect, the other is a trend. That's just cause I love my stang. lol, oh well. Well at least you prefer american cars.