Hi,

I just pulled the trigger on a '96 SOHC Highline 4dr. Automatic with 79k. It did come with some issues though.

I noticed when checking it out, it was leaking (very slightly) oil. It was 2.5qts low so I topped it off. No unusual noises from the engine. The leak seemed to be coming from between the transaxle and the engine, as that is where the drips were forming. I will put it up on jackstands, hopefully tomorrow and climb under to confirm as best I can. This would make me think the rear main seal is suspect? The prev. owner stated they had the oil pan replaced not too long ago, but it didn't seem to be coming from there.

The engine check light is on. I will go get the codes tomorrow using the key on-off 3x method in the morn. when I get off work.

The 3rd, but most major issue. When you cold start it, it turns right over and purrs except for the common rough idle. I read about it here and was expecting that. However, after driving for ten minutes or so at any MPH, the car will buck wildly and die. After a brief cool down period, about 5 min or so, it will start right up again (literally half crank start) and run perfectly fine. But will die in the next 5 min. doing the same bucking.

The previous owner tried to solve this problem, but she couldn't do her own work and had to take it to mechanics' and they were putting it to her pretty badly. Just for a tune-up, coil replacement and to clean her TB they charged her 450. And it still didn't solve her problem so she wanted to just get rid of it.

The only thing I can think of is it is a dying but not dead yet fuel pump. I think on a cold start is is operating normally, but as it heats up, it craps the bed. That would explain the "cool off" period it needs also. Because when you start it back up, it just turns over like nothing happened. If you try to re start it before then though, it won't fire. Maybe the occasional *try* but it just wont go.

I see that Ebay has fuel pumps on the cheap. They say the Walboro is a direct fit replacement, is that true? I noticed it doesn't come with that "cage" thing as the factory fuel pump has. You have to I guess put the actual fuel pump into that for it to work? Is that hard? I am just a shadtree mechanic, so I see all this work as a challenge. I do however need to get this car done in the next month or two free of problems. I just bought a GTO and that won't make a good winter car.


Also, are there Chilton or Hayes manuals for this? I see that alot of you recommend fac. manuals, but I don't want to have to order them and wait as I would like to tear into these problems as soon as the fuel pump would get here. I would rather pick one up at Pep Boys or Autozone. Which one is the best? In my experience the Chilton were the best of the two as far as accuracy and ease of use with diagrams.

I also plan on doing the MLS head gasket done, but in order of priority, I am going to do: 1. fuel system to get the car running right then 2. oil leak so I am not throwing money away, and then 3. the head gasket.

Sorry so long, but I wanted to give you guys all the details I could think of. If you have any questions, I would be happy to answer them to the best of my ability.

Thanks in advance for all the help, and I will get the codes to you guys ASAP tomorrow morning. I get off at 0730 from the firehouse.

 

Allright guys, here are the codes I pulled just now. I did it three times to be sure.

12
11
65
43
55-I know this is the one saying it is done.

I have found a list linked here in the sticky, but is it A. Correct and B. Applicable to my car? ALLPAR code list

Please help guys. I want to make sure the best I can that I am fixing the correct things here. I don't have much money to be on a will goose chase.

Thx

 

Allpar's site tends to be fairly reliable. I prefer www.troublecodes.net though.

12- No issue.
11 - Could be a number of issues ranging form a timing belt skipped tooth to intermittent loss of crankshaft signal.
65 - Possible issue with power steering switch or brake switch. Not likely to be a reason for the bucking/dying.
43 - Misfire or coil issue.
55 - end of codes.

If you have an Autozone or some other place that can pull the 4-digit codes with a scanner for free, that would help narow things down a lot. Timing belt skipping a tooth could account for rough idling. Shouldn't make it die though. Losing the crankshaft signal could make it die (obvously), and losing it for less than a second could make it misfire and idle rough... The wiring for that is in the same general area as the power steering sensor, don't know if it's in the same cable run or not though. That would be my first place to look - signs of rubbing or stretching, etc. 79k isn't a lot of miles.

The recommended interval for timing belt replacement is 105k, but I personally won't go more than 85-90k ever again... If you're going to get to the head gasket, that would be the time to do it, that way you're only having to line the silly thing up once. Be sure to replace the water pump and tensioner assembly while you're at it. Those fail just as often as the belt...

Oil leak from the RMS sounds appropriate. Auto tranny is heavy... Replacing the seal isn't that hard of a job, getting the tranny off and back on can be a chore.

If you're '96 has an aluminum tank, it has an external fuel filter that should be changed every 30k miles or so. If it gets clogged, it will start airbinding the pump. If you have the plastic tank, there's no big external filter, just a tiny one that attached to the regulator (external to the tank) that shouldn't ever need replacing. The Walbro 250 lph pump is a direct fit, no modificaton needed. It just fits in whatever pump housing you currently have - different housings for plastic vs. aluminum tanks. The pump should include all necessary o-rings and whatnot for both types of housings. If you're paying more than $110 or so, check out www.howellautomotive.com and www.modernperformance.com for their pricing.

The Haynes manual isn't all that bad, but it does have some rather gross torque specs here and there. You can usually pick up a used FSM on ebay (pop up every few months or so) for $100ish. But usually someone here or on neons.org will be able to provide any info that the FSM can't.

Best of luck!

 

RadarLove,

THANK YOU!

It looks like I will be just doing all this work at once and getting it over with. I will do the headgasket, timingbelt and waterpump. I will be calling Autozone (luckily there is one only about 1/4 of a mile away, I think the car will make it) and see if they will pull the 4 digit code for me. I will report back with my findings since it seems that people that have these stalling problems here on the forums never seem to follow up with what was wrong. I was starting to get frustrated and overwhelmed, as I went and looked at buying a multimeter and fuel pressure testing kit yesterday and it would be about 80-90 bucks just for that to test the fuel pump and relay.

Hopefully I can get that haynes and chilton manual off of ebay. There is a guy selling both in great condition, he prob sold his car and needs to get rid of them. I haven't seen any factory manuals for '96 but I will keep my eyes open.

I also just found out that one of the fireman at work (he is a volunteer, we are a combination station) workes for plymouth as a parts manager. I will call to see what his cost is on parts which could help me out alot.

I will also go check my tank and see which one it is. It would be so awesome if it was just a clogged fuel filter on a metal tank, so I could just replace it and it would run right. That is what I am hoping anyway. If it is the fuel pump, I will prob. go the walbro route if the parts manager I know can't get me a great deal on a stock replacement.

Would you happen to know where the wiring is for the power steering and crank sensor is, such as what general area? I could pick up some electrical cleaner and take all the sensor clips off and clean and reattach them and check the wiring. If I had a good idea what side and about where it is it would make it much easier.

Thanks again, and if you or anyone else has any other comments/suggestions I am all ears.

--Ed

 

P.S.

Do I need any special tools to do the timing belt or headgasket? I have a full set of craftsman hand tools (the 1500 dollar one, I think it is 700 and some pieces) and some other stuff (jack, jackstands-but need two more, compressor and other hand tools)

Also, should I get a tranny jack for taking out the transmission to do the main seal? I think northern tools have some pretty cheap.

I am going to change the tranny fluid and filter while I am at it, flush the engine and change oil/filter. I might even change the brake fluid and check the brakes even though they seem fine.

 

Oh, and flush/change coolant.

 

Crap, the place next to me was an advanced auto parts store, not an autozone. Seems the autozone stores are too far away from me, it would take all day to get there stalling every five minutes. It looks like I am gonna have to replace some parts and hope for the best. I have AAA though, maybe I can see how many tows I get a year and have them take it out to them or my friends dealership if he can get one of the mechanics to pull the codes for me for free. I will see.

 

Ok, I just checked, it has an aluminum tank, there is a seam that runs around it and it sounded like metal when I rapped on it.

Where is the fuel filter located, you said it is externally mounted from the tank, but what part of the car? The lines underneath? In the engine bay? Or is it right near the tank?


Thx.

--Ed

 

The fuel filter is forward of the passenger side rear wheel. There is a metal plate underneath it you'll have to take off. I was able to get to it no problem with that corner in the air and not removing the wheel.

You'll need to buy/rent a 3-jaw 5-ton gear puller to get the crankshaft pulley off. There is also an insert that parts stores rarely carry, Miller Special Tools has them, runs $10 or so. Alternatively, you could use the big passenger side motor mount bolt and thread it in - same size as the bolt that holds on the crankshaft pulley, just longer. Use a punch to make a small dent in the top so the gear puller doesn't slide around... Getting the pulley back on isn't that hard. There's a special tool for that as well, but I've never used one. Should slide on most of the way pretty easily (antiseize might help), just be sure it's snug and lined up with your accessory pullies when you're done. A machine shop can check the head for flatness and shave off a tad if needed for not much money. Usually isn't necessary unless you have a history of overheating. Use new head bolts when reassembling, not the old ones. There's a really good how-to for the timing belt part of it at www.boogerracing.com that you might want to take a look at.

Don't know if a tranny jack would be much help with the auto tranny. Seem to remember them having a flatter bottom than the mtx though. We just muscled mine around (mtx), only weighed 80 pounds or so dry.

The power steering sensor is right on the steering rack, pretty easy to spot - towards the passenger side of the car. The crank sensor is on the block in that general area.

You can test the relay by swapping it with any of the other relays in the engine bay fuse box. My favorite is the horn realy... My fuel pressure guage only ran $25 or so and attaches to the schrader valve.

Keep at it, you'll get it sorted out...

 

Thanks again RadarLove.

Will any 3 Jaw 5/6 ton harmonic dampner pulley work with this special miller tool insert?

Or does it have to be a Miller harmonic dampner puller?

Getting it back on, you said it goes on most of the way, then you just use the stock bolt to get it on the rest of the way?

As far as this running problem goes, I am going to start with the basics. I am going to hopefully get a fuel filter today or tomorrow, check the spark plugs and switch them to NGK coppers if needed, and then get electrical connection cleaner and clean all the sensors and clips. I am hoping this will solve the problem. If it doesn't, then I guess I will have to replace the fuel pump. My friend at plymouth can get me a new one for 200 bucks, but I think I might just save 100 and get a warbro on ebay for 99 shipped if I have to go that route. I will also switch out the relays before doing this to make sure it isn't faulty.

Thanks again for all the help, and if you don't mind, keep an eye out on this if I have any more questions, you have been a great help.