Egt high???
#21
03-02-2010, 06:03 PM
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He has an '06.....doesn't have a VGT turbo!
The 351CW is used on the 04.5 - 07 5.9's. The turbine wheel is only a 60mm.
The 03 and 04 trucks used the HX35 and HY35, depending on transmission.
The VGT's didn't come into play until 07'5 on the 6.7's.....compare apples to apples.
He DOES NOT need a set of twins for that setup.
6000 ft isn't squat when you're making you own atmosphere. A 62, even with a set of 50 HP nozzles is just fine.
You won't see a 70+ mm turbine wheel until you start looking at Super Phat Shaft's, HTT 71's or A4000's.
The 351CW is used on the 04.5 - 07 5.9's. The turbine wheel is only a 60mm.
The 03 and 04 trucks used the HX35 and HY35, depending on transmission.
The VGT's didn't come into play until 07'5 on the 6.7's.....compare apples to apples.
He DOES NOT need a set of twins for that setup.
6000 ft isn't squat when you're making you own atmosphere. A 62, even with a set of 50 HP nozzles is just fine.
You won't see a 70+ mm turbine wheel until you start looking at Super Phat Shaft's, HTT 71's or A4000's.
You must be measuring 341's EVERY 351 that I have seen had a 60mm inducer and an 88mm exducer on the compressor wheel...
#22
03-02-2010, 06:53 PM
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Okay, here's what you need to understand.....
HE doesn't have a 12V.
HE doesn't have a VGT turbo.
HE most likely does not want to drop the coin on a compound setup, nor does he have the rest of the prerequisite mods to run that kind of setup.
HE has a mostly bone stock truck that is likely his daily driver that needs to reduce his MAX EGT's by 150*.
Not everyone wants a race truck, that's what you need to understand.
Getting down to what the end user wants and getting the right parts is what we do.
The setup he's running will be hard pressed to even spool a 66 until he's up on the top end of the RPM range. He's simply not pushing enough fuel. Hell, pushing 160 HP sticks, dual CP3's. 230 HP worth of turning and it still takes 4-6 seconds and 2200 - 2300 RPM to spool my 71.
What he needs is the additional airflow and reduced back packpressure from a slightly larger, more efficient single.
If he's at higher elevation, then he can still run the 62 and be completely fine. What he needs then is a larger turbine wheel. He'd need to step up to a Phat Shaft 62, HTT 62/71, or a Turbonetics T3/T04. Turbo's with a 71mm turbine wheel.
Figuring out what he wants from the truck, what he does with the truck and what he'd like the truck to do is where you get the right parts.
For most guys, they don't want the hassle of manually controlling a VGT with a Fleece controller in a daily driven truck.
HE doesn't have a 12V.
HE doesn't have a VGT turbo.
HE most likely does not want to drop the coin on a compound setup, nor does he have the rest of the prerequisite mods to run that kind of setup.
HE has a mostly bone stock truck that is likely his daily driver that needs to reduce his MAX EGT's by 150*.
Not everyone wants a race truck, that's what you need to understand.
Getting down to what the end user wants and getting the right parts is what we do.
The setup he's running will be hard pressed to even spool a 66 until he's up on the top end of the RPM range. He's simply not pushing enough fuel. Hell, pushing 160 HP sticks, dual CP3's. 230 HP worth of turning and it still takes 4-6 seconds and 2200 - 2300 RPM to spool my 71.
What he needs is the additional airflow and reduced back packpressure from a slightly larger, more efficient single.
If he's at higher elevation, then he can still run the 62 and be completely fine. What he needs then is a larger turbine wheel. He'd need to step up to a Phat Shaft 62, HTT 62/71, or a Turbonetics T3/T04. Turbo's with a 71mm turbine wheel.
Figuring out what he wants from the truck, what he does with the truck and what he'd like the truck to do is where you get the right parts.
For most guys, they don't want the hassle of manually controlling a VGT with a Fleece controller in a daily driven truck.
Last edited by Coal Train; 03-02-2010 at 06:59 PM.
#23
03-02-2010, 07:30 PM
Veteran
Okay, here's what you need to understand.....
HE doesn't have a 12V.
HE doesn't have a VGT turbo.
HE most likely does not want to drop the coin on a compound setup, nor does he have the rest of the prerequisite mods to run that kind of setup.
HE has a mostly bone stock truck that is likely his daily driver that needs to reduce his MAX EGT's by 150*.
Not everyone wants a race truck, that's what you need to understand.
Getting down to what the end user wants and getting the right parts is what we do.
The setup he's running will be hard pressed to even spool a 66 until he's up on the top end of the RPM range. He's simply not pushing enough fuel. Hell, pushing 160 HP sticks, dual CP3's. 230 HP worth of turning and it still takes 4-6 seconds and 2200 - 2300 RPM to spool my 71.
What he needs is the additional airflow and reduced back packpressure from a slightly larger, more efficient single.
If he's at higher elevation, then he can still run the 62 and be completely fine. What he needs then is a larger turbine wheel. He'd need to step up to a Phat Shaft 62, HTT 62/71, or a Turbonetics T3/T04. Turbo's with a 71mm turbine wheel.
Figuring out what he wants from the truck, what he does with the truck and what he'd like the truck to do is where you get the right parts.
For most guys, they don't want the hassle of manually controlling a VGT with a Fleece controller in a daily driven truck.
HE doesn't have a 12V.
HE doesn't have a VGT turbo.
HE most likely does not want to drop the coin on a compound setup, nor does he have the rest of the prerequisite mods to run that kind of setup.
HE has a mostly bone stock truck that is likely his daily driver that needs to reduce his MAX EGT's by 150*.
Not everyone wants a race truck, that's what you need to understand.
Getting down to what the end user wants and getting the right parts is what we do.
The setup he's running will be hard pressed to even spool a 66 until he's up on the top end of the RPM range. He's simply not pushing enough fuel. Hell, pushing 160 HP sticks, dual CP3's. 230 HP worth of turning and it still takes 4-6 seconds and 2200 - 2300 RPM to spool my 71.
What he needs is the additional airflow and reduced back packpressure from a slightly larger, more efficient single.
If he's at higher elevation, then he can still run the 62 and be completely fine. What he needs then is a larger turbine wheel. He'd need to step up to a Phat Shaft 62, HTT 62/71, or a Turbonetics T3/T04. Turbo's with a 71mm turbine wheel.
Figuring out what he wants from the truck, what he does with the truck and what he'd like the truck to do is where you get the right parts.
For most guys, they don't want the hassle of manually controlling a VGT with a Fleece controller in a daily driven truck.
Now you're suggesting a BIG exhaust wheel??? Why would you want that kind of detriment to spool on a basically stock truck? If it is that close to stock then a 65mm turbine would be just fine. Towing is just as much about spool as it is about moving air...
Last edited by blackskyracing; 03-02-2010 at 07:32 PM.
#24
03-02-2010, 10:32 PM
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No, there's no misreading in it. I'm not suggesting VGT at all OR a set of towing twins, it's not what's needed here.
Didn't I say go with a 62/65 in the first place? Didn't I say you have to remember he has a mostly stock truck? Is there something I'm flip flopping on here?
MY comparison is to demonstrate the it takes a large amount of fuel to effectively spool a 66. A 66/71 or 66/74 on a Common Rail is capable of power in the 700 HP range and boost pressures that now require head studs and valve springs. OR you have to wastegate it so much that you lose the advantages of it.
Even on most of the stock over add-on compound setups, the primary charger is no bigger than a 64 AND the prices of them are prohibitive for most guys.
To get an efficient spool on a 64, you're looking at 90 - 120 HP injectors. To spool a 66, you're looking at 120 - 150 sticks. Otherwise, they're dogs.
Also, the stock trans on a CR won't handle more than 40 HP over stock before the TC starts gving up the ghost. Clutch packs start giving up at 60 over. Stock clutches are only good for 70 - 90. Valves start floating at 48 psi. Head gaskets start letting go at 48 psi.......
He doesn't have big sticks. He doesn't have an aftermarket fuel system. He doesn't have an aftermarket trans. He DOES NOT have the prerequisite items to take advantage of a twin setup.
This is why you plan the parts so you can grow with them. Going with a 62/65/12 as an upgrade turbo will not only more than control his EGT's with what he has now, it's PERFECT to use as the secondary if he decided he wanted to go and upgrade to a twin setup later. Add a 71 or 74 later down the road and a set of 90 HP sticks, studs, springs and a fuel system to push it, a trans to hold it all together and you have a 600 - 650 HP tow ring that'll handle the Overland Pass and not break a sweat.
You can spend a bit over a grand on a good 62 and put things right in check, or you can spend close to or more than $3K and get a system that is a compromise.
Didn't I say go with a 62/65 in the first place? Didn't I say you have to remember he has a mostly stock truck? Is there something I'm flip flopping on here?
MY comparison is to demonstrate the it takes a large amount of fuel to effectively spool a 66. A 66/71 or 66/74 on a Common Rail is capable of power in the 700 HP range and boost pressures that now require head studs and valve springs. OR you have to wastegate it so much that you lose the advantages of it.
Even on most of the stock over add-on compound setups, the primary charger is no bigger than a 64 AND the prices of them are prohibitive for most guys.
To get an efficient spool on a 64, you're looking at 90 - 120 HP injectors. To spool a 66, you're looking at 120 - 150 sticks. Otherwise, they're dogs.
Also, the stock trans on a CR won't handle more than 40 HP over stock before the TC starts gving up the ghost. Clutch packs start giving up at 60 over. Stock clutches are only good for 70 - 90. Valves start floating at 48 psi. Head gaskets start letting go at 48 psi.......
He doesn't have big sticks. He doesn't have an aftermarket fuel system. He doesn't have an aftermarket trans. He DOES NOT have the prerequisite items to take advantage of a twin setup.
This is why you plan the parts so you can grow with them. Going with a 62/65/12 as an upgrade turbo will not only more than control his EGT's with what he has now, it's PERFECT to use as the secondary if he decided he wanted to go and upgrade to a twin setup later. Add a 71 or 74 later down the road and a set of 90 HP sticks, studs, springs and a fuel system to push it, a trans to hold it all together and you have a 600 - 650 HP tow ring that'll handle the Overland Pass and not break a sweat.
You can spend a bit over a grand on a good 62 and put things right in check, or you can spend close to or more than $3K and get a system that is a compromise.
Last edited by Coal Train; 03-02-2010 at 10:39 PM.
#25
03-02-2010, 10:39 PM
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You're thinking of the old HX series turbos... Smaller compressor wheels that were cast instead of CNC machined made them less efficient. The compressor side of the 351 is perfectly safe at 40psi, even the older 6 blade HX40 was good to 45psi... There's more than a few people pushing the stock 351cw's to 500+rwhp, the big thing that seems to hold them back is the small housing, but if you bore out the wastgate opening it seems to help them tremendously. It's not a lack of air due too small of a turbo
Witch I check it out every time I change my oil just to make sure I didn't scatter the impellers.. Running anything more then 35 psi on a 351 stock turbo is pointless... But what can I do other then swap it out with a Aurora 3000 or 4000 Still undecided....
How would opening up your waist gate help anything? You want to block it off if anything, not make it bigger... Waist gate is to release intake air pressure into the exhaust. So you wont over boost the turbo and cause the compressor to stall....
Yet does the original poster want to spend thousands of dollars for a turbo probably not...
Now I can read the rest of the posts after this one... Lets see what Coal Train and you have to say in the other posts
#26
03-03-2010, 03:35 AM
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#27
03-03-2010, 07:03 AM
Veteran
I don't know much, but the first thought that came to mind was......get rid of the "Edge Programmer". If it's causing your truck to get high EGT's, take it off. Unless of course it was running that hot stock.
I'm NO expert, just thought I'd shed a little novice opinion. LOL! Of course this is the cheapest way to fix his "EGT" problem.
My next suggestion would be a water/methanol setup.
I'm NO expert, just thought I'd shed a little novice opinion. LOL! Of course this is the cheapest way to fix his "EGT" problem.
My next suggestion would be a water/methanol setup.
#28
03-03-2010, 07:20 AM
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I don't know much, but the first thought that came to mind was......get rid of the "Edge Programmer". If it's causing your truck to get high EGT's, take it off. Unless of course it was running that hot stock.
I'm NO expert, just thought I'd shed a little novice opinion. LOL! Of course this is the cheapest way to fix his "EGT" problem.
My next suggestion would be a water/methanol setup.
I'm NO expert, just thought I'd shed a little novice opinion. LOL! Of course this is the cheapest way to fix his "EGT" problem.
My next suggestion would be a water/methanol setup.
Again, the Edge runs hot due to the way it achieves its power. Something like a Smarty Jr runs much cooler in the common rails than the Edge does, it just doesn't have the gauge package that the Edge does.
With the Water / Meth.........that's a temporary solution to the problem.
I use it on mine, but in very low concentration and only if I have it on the track. I have a small, 1 gallon bottle in the back and after 4 - 5 runs, you need to fill it again.
So for a daily driven tow rig, you have to look at having a 7 gallon tank mounted in the back to run it without stopping to fill it after a good long grade.
Also, the commercially available "boost juices" are 1 - too strong for a daily driver and 2 - EXPENSIVE. You're looking at almost a 50% concentration of meth to water and they run around $7 a gallon.
What I run in mine is about 90% distilled water and 10% meth (max). For that I go to the Autoparts store and get winter blend windshiled washer fluid, which is 20% meth and 80% distilled water for $0.99. Then I get another gallon of distilled water $0.89 and I cut the solution to 90/10. So for less than $2 you get 2 gallons and it's completely safe to run in a stock common rail.
Those 2 gallons will usually last me an evening at the track.
For a permanent solution without having to mess with filling a tank all the time, you still want to upgrade the turbo.
#29
03-03-2010, 07:24 AM
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#30
03-03-2010, 07:40 AM
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Here's what's done to my truck. All built in-house with the intent of having a truck that can do almost everything well.....
Daily Driver (has approx 60K on the clock), Weekend Warrior (plenty of HP & TQ), Tow Rig (our shop trailer is right around 10K).
The Specs (as of now):
-Suncoast Full Billet Tranny w/ Mag-Hytec Double Deep Tranny Pan
-ATS Aurora 3000 (57mm) / 5000 (71mm) Compound Turbos
-ATS Sub Zero Intercooler
-Stainless Steel Boost Tube
-CFM+ Intake Manifold
-ARP Head Studs
-ARP Rocker Studs
-Hamilton Diesel 110# Valve Springs
-Billet Push Rods
-PPE Dual CP3's
-FASS 150
-DDP 160hp injectors
-Industrial Injection Dual Feed Line
-ATS Exhaust Manifold
-DiPricol EGT, 100 psi Boost & Rail Pressure Gauges in Autometer Triple A-Pillar
-DiPricol Fuel Pressure Gauge on the steering column
-Torque Converter Mystery Switch
-4th Gear Mystery Switch
-5" Magnaflow black dual exhaust
-Edge Hot Juice w/ Attitude in an Autometer overhead mount
-Smarty TNT/R
-SRT10 Hood
-SRT10 Night Runner Black Headlights
-Smoked LED Tail & 3rd Brake Lights
-Tow Mirrors
-Linex Bed
-Full Wheel Well Liners
-Linex'd Westin Wheel to Wheel Step Bars
-Black Pro Comp 8107 Wheels
-305/65/17 Pro Comp Extreme AT's
-Custom SRT6 badges by Steve Smart of billetbadges.com
-Mag Hy-tec Front & Rear Diff Covers
-MAXX Sway Bar End Links
-Steering Box Brace
In the shop as we speak:
-Fire ring kit (when the HG finally let's go, these will go in)
Future upgrades that are planned:
-Fly-cut, coated, 16.5:1 pistons
-Billet, shot peened connecting rods
-ARP main and cap studs
-Balanced crank
-75/150 HP shot of NoS
-Line-X the lower portion of the body
-Airbag the rear
-Ladder bars
Current numbers:
742 HP, 1456 TQ
7.53 @ 94 MPH on the 1/8th
Detuned to ~670 HP it ran a 12.25 at 113 on the 1/4 (was having some nasty wheel hop)
Mileage is 16 - 18 in day-to-day driving and 20 - 21.5 cruising at 70 - 72 on the highway
And, here's what she looks like handling business.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azckLcopJGA
Daily Driver (has approx 60K on the clock), Weekend Warrior (plenty of HP & TQ), Tow Rig (our shop trailer is right around 10K).
The Specs (as of now):
-Suncoast Full Billet Tranny w/ Mag-Hytec Double Deep Tranny Pan
-ATS Aurora 3000 (57mm) / 5000 (71mm) Compound Turbos
-ATS Sub Zero Intercooler
-Stainless Steel Boost Tube
-CFM+ Intake Manifold
-ARP Head Studs
-ARP Rocker Studs
-Hamilton Diesel 110# Valve Springs
-Billet Push Rods
-PPE Dual CP3's
-FASS 150
-DDP 160hp injectors
-Industrial Injection Dual Feed Line
-ATS Exhaust Manifold
-DiPricol EGT, 100 psi Boost & Rail Pressure Gauges in Autometer Triple A-Pillar
-DiPricol Fuel Pressure Gauge on the steering column
-Torque Converter Mystery Switch
-4th Gear Mystery Switch
-5" Magnaflow black dual exhaust
-Edge Hot Juice w/ Attitude in an Autometer overhead mount
-Smarty TNT/R
-SRT10 Hood
-SRT10 Night Runner Black Headlights
-Smoked LED Tail & 3rd Brake Lights
-Tow Mirrors
-Linex Bed
-Full Wheel Well Liners
-Linex'd Westin Wheel to Wheel Step Bars
-Black Pro Comp 8107 Wheels
-305/65/17 Pro Comp Extreme AT's
-Custom SRT6 badges by Steve Smart of billetbadges.com
-Mag Hy-tec Front & Rear Diff Covers
-MAXX Sway Bar End Links
-Steering Box Brace
In the shop as we speak:
-Fire ring kit (when the HG finally let's go, these will go in)
Future upgrades that are planned:
-Fly-cut, coated, 16.5:1 pistons
-Billet, shot peened connecting rods
-ARP main and cap studs
-Balanced crank
-75/150 HP shot of NoS
-Line-X the lower portion of the body
-Airbag the rear
-Ladder bars
Current numbers:
742 HP, 1456 TQ
7.53 @ 94 MPH on the 1/8th
Detuned to ~670 HP it ran a 12.25 at 113 on the 1/4 (was having some nasty wheel hop)
Mileage is 16 - 18 in day-to-day driving and 20 - 21.5 cruising at 70 - 72 on the highway
And, here's what she looks like handling business.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azckLcopJGA
Last edited by Coal Train; 03-03-2010 at 08:01 AM.