Hey there - I'm having a hella time getting my starter to work properly. Been using these forums and they have been a lot of help, but I'm stuck.

First the simple question; I'm stumped at right now:

Should there be 12V across the two wires that go to the starter when the key is NOT in start position? Because there is 12v here, and that doesn't make sense to me...though I'm no expert!

Fast Summary:

96 Ram Van 3500. Bought new in 1996, has 125k miles.

Replaced battery.
Replaced solenoid/starter unit. *
Swapped relay.
Want to test switches but kind of stumped.


The gory details:

First symptom a while back was that sometimes turning key to start got a click. Try again and it would crank. I was paying attention to it for a few weeks, and the battery was old, and it seemed that it would start fine if the car had been running recently, but after sitting overnight it would exhibit the symptopms. being the battery was old, I figured it was at a high enough SOC after recently running, but overnight the SOC dropped enough to keep it from cranking. So I replaced the battery and the issue appeared resolved for a few days.

Then the problem returned. Figured it was the fact it was an intermittent issue, and coincidence is what had it working after the battery replacement - so back to solving the real problem.

I wanted to replace the solenoid since the starter cranked as good as it did the day I bought it, but being these appear to be one unit I was forced to replace the starter and solenoid together. That seemed to fix it. No problem for at least 10 days, which was the longest (by far) it ever went since the issue began.

Then yesterday, during a momentary lapse of sanity, I got it stuck trying to get through deep mud and water off-road (a long story...) I tried to rock it out of being stuck till the tranny overheated and started slipping (ooops...) - I then regained sanity and found someone with a Jeep to help tow me out. I tell you this story of stupidity because, guess what? When the tranny had cooled sufficiently, and we were ready to try and get the van out with the Jeep-tow-assist, I tried to start the van and: Click. Click. Click. But then (thank God) it started.

Anyway, with some help from my new buddy Bruce, we got it out and I drove home. Later I tried to start it. No start. Click. click. click. Then one time, after moving the shifter around, it started in N. I couldn't duplicate that again though (have not been able to start it at all since), so not sure if moving the shifter around had anything to do with it. You know, I did a whole lot of shifter banging when I was rocking the van. Could the switch be shot? I don't know, because I don't know how to bypass/test it!

Battery tests fine - just in case I hooked my other car up and ran it with jumper cables for half hour and tried starting with jumper cables on many times, and many times since and without. Nothing but click.

I swapped out the relay with other identical relays in the box. No effect other than no clicking when rely is out (expected.)

I would like to bypass the switches (my van starts without key anyway...not because of damage, but because the key broke off in there a while ago!

So, any help or direction here would be *greatly* appreciated!

Mahalo from Hawaii

-Mark

 

Grounds man Grounds!!..
Check the battery to engine ground. Do not just look and wiggle but remove wirebrush and re install.

Any green/white stuff on the battery cables under the insulation?

How does the engine to frame ground strap look. Does it even exist?

And get that burnt fluid out of there before it grenades the rest of your tranny

ATF +4 only, since ATF +3 is no longer available.

 

Thanks for the quick reply - battery terminals were cleaned when I put the new battery in. Lights and all that work fine, too.

I;m not an expert here - tell me where to look for the strap and the ground connection to engine, and I'll look! It is *really* muddy under there - i got mud and water everywhere!

Thanks for the tranny fluid suggestion, wasn't thinking about it!

 

Many members report the lack of an engine to frame ground. When I was chasing down what was ultimately a failing engine computer, I could not find a frame to engine ground, So I just bought a 4 foot 4 awg cable and attached one end to the engine head bolt, and the other at a hole on the frame which I had cleaned and found a self tapping bolt for.


One member reported that adding this ground eliminated a stalling issue that had him running in circles for months.


Pull back the insulation on the battery cables. I live in a salt air environment too and have seen some ugly things under this insulation.

For the battery to engine ground, just follow the fat black cable from the battery where it attaches to the engine.

This might not be your issue, but until you eliminate them as possibilities there is no point in looking elsewhere.

 

First you'll want to wash that mud off before it dries becomes rock-hard. Second, the starter issue could be because the starter or the solenoid filled up with dirty water during the mud bath. Third, The neutral safety switch has 3 terminals. ONLY when in reverse, there should be continuity between the two outer terminals. ONLY when in Park or Neutral, there should be continuity from the middle terminal to ground.

 

Yes, I pulled the starter out to bench test while waiting for replies, and found it wouldn't turn. Took it apart and it is full of mud. Damn. So I just tore it all the way down and cleaned with a toothbrush and water. Once it dries out I'll grease it back up and put 'er back together.

Hope that solves the problem! I'll post back later - sunny today, should dry out in an hour in our Hawaii sun!

 

While I'm waiting for it to dry, can someone tell me why the heck those two terminals on the solenoid have voltage on them when ignition not in start position?

 

I got it to barely turn over (but running) - wondering if grease needs to get moved around in there... dare I turn it off, or do I drive to auto parts store ?!?

 

Only the large wire should have +12v on it since it comes from the battery. Once everything dries out I'm sure you'll get a different reading.

 

After cleaning it out that starter was good enough to get me to the parts store. Tough to get it to crank in parking lot, but eventually it did and that got me home (hate working on the car in front of the "NO WORKING ON CARS IN PARKING LOT" sign

Put the new starter in at home as the sun went down and it's working like a charm.

Thanks everyone for the fast suggestions!