still dont believe me???
#31
03-08-2006 | 03:56 AM
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From: United States
RE: still dont believe me???
ORIGINAL: RadarLove
The R/T's had a higher speed limiter of 130(ish) mph stock (yes, the R/T's DO have a speed limiter, the ACR's were the ones with an unattainable limiter). A Mopar PCM raises it even higher (significantly), and an AFX will eliminate it (well, raise it so high it's impossible to hit it...). At 130 mph with the Performance A tranny (R/T stock tranny), you should be around 5950 rpm on the stock wheels and tires. Very hard to read the rpm's on your screenshot. Looks like you're using the ELM/scantool.net setup? So is that the digimoto program then? It's what I was using before my car was broken into and the unit stolen...
The rev limiter on an stock R/T should kick in at 7200 RPM, not 6200 RPM.. always... The rev limiter does not care what gear you are in. It doesn't even know what gear you are in. If you have something kicking in at 6200 rpm, it's the speed limiter, which puts you around 135 mph on stock diameter tires. I do wish you'd make up your mind which PCM is in that particular car. I do realize you have two different R/T's though...
The stock speedo and tach are notoriously inaccurate. I've seen a brand new '02 be off by nearly 1000 rpm when compared to a scan at 5000 rpm. If you had the aftermarket tach running off the same wire as the factory tach at the same time, chances are neither was accurate and both may now be damaged. Scanner is a much better than the cluster... The speed sensor is run off a gear on the differential, and splits off (on 1st gens), one wire to the PCM for speed, and the other to the instrument cluster. The cluster needle gets positioned based on the voltage signal, but I can pull that needle off and stick it wherever I want. Like most factory gauges, I don't trust the indicated reading very much, regardless of how many cop friends I have... The PCM uses that reading to calculate speed based on the assumption that the stock diameter tires are being used. You have a scantool for PCM readings, so forget the stupid stock speedo... With the 195/60R14's on there, the readout will show 65 mph when the car is actually doing 64.29 mph. When the readout shows 130 mph, the car will actually be doing 128.58 mph. It's a difference of 1.09%, negligible, insignificant.
I believe you. Only a moron believes that it takes a bunch of mods for a Neon to hit 130-135 mph. A '95 SOHC ACR can do it stock, I've seen it.
That all said, street racing and top speed comparisons are juvenile. Find a track and post timeslips.
The R/T's had a higher speed limiter of 130(ish) mph stock (yes, the R/T's DO have a speed limiter, the ACR's were the ones with an unattainable limiter). A Mopar PCM raises it even higher (significantly), and an AFX will eliminate it (well, raise it so high it's impossible to hit it...). At 130 mph with the Performance A tranny (R/T stock tranny), you should be around 5950 rpm on the stock wheels and tires. Very hard to read the rpm's on your screenshot. Looks like you're using the ELM/scantool.net setup? So is that the digimoto program then? It's what I was using before my car was broken into and the unit stolen...
The rev limiter on an stock R/T should kick in at 7200 RPM, not 6200 RPM.. always... The rev limiter does not care what gear you are in. It doesn't even know what gear you are in. If you have something kicking in at 6200 rpm, it's the speed limiter, which puts you around 135 mph on stock diameter tires. I do wish you'd make up your mind which PCM is in that particular car. I do realize you have two different R/T's though...
The stock speedo and tach are notoriously inaccurate. I've seen a brand new '02 be off by nearly 1000 rpm when compared to a scan at 5000 rpm. If you had the aftermarket tach running off the same wire as the factory tach at the same time, chances are neither was accurate and both may now be damaged. Scanner is a much better than the cluster... The speed sensor is run off a gear on the differential, and splits off (on 1st gens), one wire to the PCM for speed, and the other to the instrument cluster. The cluster needle gets positioned based on the voltage signal, but I can pull that needle off and stick it wherever I want. Like most factory gauges, I don't trust the indicated reading very much, regardless of how many cop friends I have... The PCM uses that reading to calculate speed based on the assumption that the stock diameter tires are being used. You have a scantool for PCM readings, so forget the stupid stock speedo... With the 195/60R14's on there, the readout will show 65 mph when the car is actually doing 64.29 mph. When the readout shows 130 mph, the car will actually be doing 128.58 mph. It's a difference of 1.09%, negligible, insignificant.
I believe you. Only a moron believes that it takes a bunch of mods for a Neon to hit 130-135 mph. A '95 SOHC ACR can do it stock, I've seen it.
That all said, street racing and top speed comparisons are juvenile. Find a track and post timeslips.
The ACR is far lighter than any R/T, especially a well optioned R/T, and also lack some of the power robbing items as well. The lesser power SOHC ACR may be able to hit such speed due to it's taller fifth gear, but I have not seen or heard of it being done in one. I have no doubt that my R/T could hit the 130 MPH mark given the right conditions and enough room, but it was a 2 door and had none of the power options and no sunroof. Most R/T's I've seen are loaded down with options which is why I bought the one I had (white with blue stripes and almost every Mopar Performance part made already on it) as I wanted a black one with silver stripes and no power options.
As the ACR has proven, it doesn't take much to get to 130 MPH in a properly set up Neon, but to achieve it with what he has done as well as beating a WRX and keeping with an SRT-4 up to 135 MPH is [sm=bs.gif]. Especially with it all being done on the stock PCM.
#32
03-08-2006 | 06:22 AM
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Legend
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From: mendota, illinois
RE: still dont believe me???
my red r/t has no power options at all. no sunroof, manual windows, manual locks, manual mirrors. there is nothing to it. it is as plain as they come. it was even a stripe delete. i didnt say it beat the wrx. i said that it kept up with it too. in order to beat it i would have to go faster then him. and i know that it couldnt do 140....duh!...i think people should learn to read better
#33
03-08-2006 | 02:27 PM
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RE: still dont believe me???
2 things are working against you. First, it's on the street. Keeping up means nothing. I could "keep up" with a friend's mid-80's Corvette all the way to the former 120 mph speed limiter. Second, you're dead set that top speed has anything to do with anything. It doesn't.
There is no way, short of a busted cylinder in the Subbie's engine, maybe a roasted clutch... that your R/T comes close to meeting any of the key times you'll find on a timeslip (60 ft, 300 ft, 1/8 mile, etc.), much less a track that requires you to turn the steering wheel. In order to beat it, you really need to actually race it. Trust me, you aren't going to beat it...
Top speeds are bragging rights by manufacturers that get stuck in the literature to impress the uneducated. People are starting to think that more gears somehow means more power/precision/handling/whatever. Wouldn't be surprised to see 7- and 8- speed trannies out there soon... oh wait, Mercedes does...
There is no way, short of a busted cylinder in the Subbie's engine, maybe a roasted clutch... that your R/T comes close to meeting any of the key times you'll find on a timeslip (60 ft, 300 ft, 1/8 mile, etc.), much less a track that requires you to turn the steering wheel. In order to beat it, you really need to actually race it. Trust me, you aren't going to beat it...
Top speeds are bragging rights by manufacturers that get stuck in the literature to impress the uneducated. People are starting to think that more gears somehow means more power/precision/handling/whatever. Wouldn't be surprised to see 7- and 8- speed trannies out there soon... oh wait, Mercedes does...
#34
03-08-2006 | 02:58 PM
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From: United States
RE: still dont believe me???
Either way, with your mods your not gonna stick with a WRX that well, they run the 1/4 mile in 14.5-14.6 seconds and the R/T stock is 15.9 in the 1/4 mile and that's a big difference to make up with mods.
That is why a friend of mine got the 6 speed manual in his '03 Tiburon GT, I told him that it doesn't matter and that it's just an economy thing. Top speed matters if that's what your running the other person for, and who hasn't tested their top speed at one time or another wether they get there or not. The mid '80's Corvettes were the worst and most pathetic ones ever made, but you'll never get their owners to believe how sad they truely are. Around '85 they has a whopping 185 horsepower[sm=icon_rofl.gif].
A stock WRX doesn't do much better than a stock R/T, the WRX only turns .84 on the skidpad and has been ragged on in many magazines for it's poor handling considering their great Ralley performances. They still loved driving it and boasted how well they are pretty much fool proof to drive at their limits and that's why they rave so much about them.
That is why a friend of mine got the 6 speed manual in his '03 Tiburon GT, I told him that it doesn't matter and that it's just an economy thing. Top speed matters if that's what your running the other person for, and who hasn't tested their top speed at one time or another wether they get there or not. The mid '80's Corvettes were the worst and most pathetic ones ever made, but you'll never get their owners to believe how sad they truely are. Around '85 they has a whopping 185 horsepower[sm=icon_rofl.gif].
A stock WRX doesn't do much better than a stock R/T, the WRX only turns .84 on the skidpad and has been ragged on in many magazines for it's poor handling considering their great Ralley performances. They still loved driving it and boasted how well they are pretty much fool proof to drive at their limits and that's why they rave so much about them.
#35
03-08-2006 | 05:47 PM
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From: mendota, illinois
RE: still dont believe me???
i realize that in a 1/4 mile race i wouldnt be able to beat the wrx, but this was a 3-5 mile road that we were just messing with eachother on. besides top speed does have sumthing to do with this because this whole post is about the top speed of my car, everyone said that it cant do over 120...it just keeps going to the wrx. besides the wrx was a great running car with no mechanical problems. one time we ran was on a straight road the other was on a mostly straight road with 3-45mph curves. i wasnt able to pull ahead of him til we hit about 95mph. plus i had him out of the curves which we took at tire squeeling 75mph. and besides we werent goin for 60ft, 300ft, 1/8 mile,etc. but besides i dont care what you guys say my car cant do. i know what its capable of, my friends know, the guy with the wrx, guy with the srt-4, and everyone around town, including the cops...so it doesnt matter if you guys believe it or not...as long a we know
#36
03-09-2006 | 03:35 AM
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RE: still dont believe me???
I was simply giving an example of the great difference between the R/T and the WRX and that it would take a decent amount done to the R/T to compete with it. The fact that your talking about running with one at higher speeds only makes it just that much more unlikely, since they have the higher top speed and far more torque and horsepower to play around at higher speeds. The only way you could keep up with the WRX at the top end play is if they were letting you, much the same way that a cat plays around with a mouse before it kills it.
I don't recall anyone saying that your R/T cannot do over 120 MPH......and your the one that claimed,"i think people should learn to read better "[sm=oopssign.gif]
It also doesn't just keep going to the WRX either, your claims with the SRT-4 are also in question. You never actually gave the details about your run with the SRT-4 other than you claimed to be with it at 135 MPH when your limiter kicked in.
I got to looking at one of the previous threads that deals with this one, to recall what exactly was said about the WRX and SRT-4 running, and I came across what you said here, "my car was dynoed at 211 ". So your claiming to have gained close to 100 horsepower with those mods while still running on the stock PCM....again I must say [sm=bs.gif].
But I forgot that you don't care what we think/say about the whole matter, yet you created this thread, "still don't believe me???" which has gone this long.[sm=rolleyes.gif]
I don't recall anyone saying that your R/T cannot do over 120 MPH......and your the one that claimed,"i think people should learn to read better "[sm=oopssign.gif]
It also doesn't just keep going to the WRX either, your claims with the SRT-4 are also in question. You never actually gave the details about your run with the SRT-4 other than you claimed to be with it at 135 MPH when your limiter kicked in.
I got to looking at one of the previous threads that deals with this one, to recall what exactly was said about the WRX and SRT-4 running, and I came across what you said here, "my car was dynoed at 211 ". So your claiming to have gained close to 100 horsepower with those mods while still running on the stock PCM....again I must say [sm=bs.gif].
But I forgot that you don't care what we think/say about the whole matter, yet you created this thread, "still don't believe me???" which has gone this long.[sm=rolleyes.gif]
#37
03-09-2006 | 03:40 AM
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From: Kansas City Metro: Shawnee, Kansas
#38
03-09-2006 | 05:27 AM
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From: United States
RE: still dont believe me???
If he has all the mods he has listed, then he should just be toying with low 15's to high 14's. And although the 1/4 mile is a great all around measure of power and performance, a car could do fairly poor in the 1/4 mile yet attain high top speeds. The definition of a fast car is a matter of opinion based on the individuals idea of what it is. So that leaves a lot of room to make a valid argument.
#39
03-09-2006 | 10:13 AM
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Legend
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From: mendota, illinois
RE: still dont believe me???
There is no way that you hit 135 in a regular neon, the limiter kicks in at 120 or so. The only way would be with a performance PCM.
this is why i said that people need to learn how to read better, including yourself. and i created this thread for this reason.[sm=bangbang.gif] and besides i may of said before that this is a different pcm but i never said it was a performance one. that was also just implied...again just read better
and i think that road runer should do better math. 211 isnt close to 100hp more then my car came with stock. it is closer to 50hp. being that it would actually be 61. if i said 75 then you could round up. and besides maybe he was letting me keep up, i dont know, all i said was that i kept up with one. you guys just seem keep implying that this was a full out race. we were just messing with each other when i was on my way to work at 2 a.m. and i have also stated before that i dont know what all was done to this car before i got it. it had the koni adjustables, really good brakes, the original pcm had a dealer sticker on it saying that it was reprogrammed, and a k&n filter. maybe there are some good internals? maybe the previous owner wanted a nice sleeper and thats why he ordered a strip delete. im not gonna rip the motor apart to check. unless you know the car then there is no way that any of you would have any idea what it is capable of. isnt this fun???[sm=icon_sneaky.gif]
this is why i said that people need to learn how to read better, including yourself. and i created this thread for this reason.[sm=bangbang.gif] and besides i may of said before that this is a different pcm but i never said it was a performance one. that was also just implied...again just read better
and i think that road runer should do better math. 211 isnt close to 100hp more then my car came with stock. it is closer to 50hp. being that it would actually be 61. if i said 75 then you could round up. and besides maybe he was letting me keep up, i dont know, all i said was that i kept up with one. you guys just seem keep implying that this was a full out race. we were just messing with each other when i was on my way to work at 2 a.m. and i have also stated before that i dont know what all was done to this car before i got it. it had the koni adjustables, really good brakes, the original pcm had a dealer sticker on it saying that it was reprogrammed, and a k&n filter. maybe there are some good internals? maybe the previous owner wanted a nice sleeper and thats why he ordered a strip delete. im not gonna rip the motor apart to check. unless you know the car then there is no way that any of you would have any idea what it is capable of. isnt this fun???[sm=icon_sneaky.gif]
#40
03-09-2006 | 10:41 AM
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RE: still dont believe me???
While I dont care whether he's telling the truth or not.....I have to step in and say just this.....
You guys keep assuming the people driving the other car COULD DRIVE. I've seen countless idiots behind the wheels of powerful cars and watched them get spanked on by a slightly slower car because the driver simply couldnt drive it the way it should be drove. I'm sure everyone here has seen good drivers with decent cars beat fast cars with crappy drivers. We have no way of knowing whether the guy driving the other car could really drive it or if he was just screwing around and got shown up.
Spudsterier: instead of trying to talk with these people, just post up timeslips/dyno sheets. That's the quickest way to shut em up. Also, if you do the dyno, make sure to post a picture of you and your car with a DF.com poster or something in front of ya....that'll make it harder for them to call BS.
You guys keep assuming the people driving the other car COULD DRIVE. I've seen countless idiots behind the wheels of powerful cars and watched them get spanked on by a slightly slower car because the driver simply couldnt drive it the way it should be drove. I'm sure everyone here has seen good drivers with decent cars beat fast cars with crappy drivers. We have no way of knowing whether the guy driving the other car could really drive it or if he was just screwing around and got shown up.
Spudsterier: instead of trying to talk with these people, just post up timeslips/dyno sheets. That's the quickest way to shut em up. Also, if you do the dyno, make sure to post a picture of you and your car with a DF.com poster or something in front of ya....that'll make it harder for them to call BS.