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My wishlist is starting to get out of hand...

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Old 12-22-2012, 01:49 AM
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Default My wishlist is starting to get out of hand...

In order of precedence:

1. Baseline Dyno Run ($50-75)

2. Methanol Injection ($268):
- a. Pump - $140
- b. Nozzle - $27
- c. Tubing - $30
- d. Tank - $11
- e. Blockoff Solenoid - $60

3. Custom Hemifever All-Out Tune (already paid for)

4. Powertrax No-Slip Locker - $490

5. MSD ignition ($300):
- a. MSD 6A Ignition Box - $175
- b. HVC Coil - $125

6. Postline Dyno Run ($50-75)

7. Slicks and Wheels ($497):
- a. M/T 3019 slicks - $391
- b. Cragar 15x8's - $106

Total: $1,655...after variances, shipping, ect, figure it'll round off to around $1,800.

I'm going to see if I can score a set of stock 15x7's any cheaper, but the cragars are a cheap fallback.

If it lets me have the license plate "8SEC V6NA" then it's worth it Goal is an 8.99 1/8 mile so I can run the electronics class. Ideally would be 8.70's for some breathing room on the class cutoff.

I have 1.7 harland rockers, clutch fan delete/Lincoln fan mod, SCT can tune, 4.10's, and 265/70-16 tires.

Bone stock (3.55's) I was in the 12.40's with 2.8x sixty's. Now I'm in the 11.10's with 2.6x sixty's. To hit 8.99 I'll need about 250 RWHP (based on a 41-4200lb weight) and a sixty somewhere around 2.2 seconds.

12.4 @ 56 @ 4200lb = 100-110 RWHP/110-120 FWHP
11.1 @ 63 @ 4200lb = 140-155 RWHP/155-170 FWHP
8.99 @ 75 @ 4100lb = 255 RWHP/285 FWHP

using this calc.

The math below says I should pick up about 1.3 seconds and land around a 9.80-9.85 @ 70 mph with a 2.3x sixty. That's 195-205 RWHP/215-230 FWHP, about 40 HP short of where I need to be. Now that said, the math below only accounts for the gear change- not the HP per CI increase from the all-out tuning, the change in rolling resistance, the increase in HP per CI from the methanol injection, the traction improvement of the locker, or the HP per CI increase from the better burn of the MSD ignition. How much HP per CI will it provide overall? Hard to say. That's what the Dyno is for.

The 3.9 stock is rated for 175 hp (192 ft-lb tq) @ 4,800 rpm and 225 lb-feet of torque (137 HP) @ 3,200 rpm. Respectively, that's 0.73 HP/0.8 ft-lb per CI and 0.94 ft-lb/0.57 HP per CI.

Something the calculator can't comprehend/calculate is that in leu of a different HP number, I'm just changing the position and duration of useful torque by playing with the effective gear ratio. I didn't simply bolt-on 40-50 HP to go from 12.40's to 11.10's. I bolted on maybe 15-20 worth, and the change from 3.55's to 4.10's (+15%) made up the other 20-30 worth. The smaller tires make my effective ratio a 5.33 (+30% over 4.10). I highly doubt a linear relationship, but if it is, then that swap should be worth 40-60 mathematical horsepower (Which, BTW, moves the actual requirement closer to 225 flywheel HP).

If/when I manage to kill the V6 (which, theoretically, the factory has it really de-tuned via the cam, so it should be impossible to kill, short of a bearing failure) I'll do a 360 swap or ideally a 408 swap.

C&P from a previous post:

============

Code:
Assuming the driveline is 83.3% efficient [15% loss is considered the average, I compared chassis dyno and oem ratings to get the 83.3 number] and neglecting rolling resistance due to traction compound and resistance of inertia,

My best sixty foot is a 2.606 with the 29" tires and 4.10's [7.503/330 @ 41.80, 12.123/660 @ 55.56 womping] and I have a backup of 2.610/60, 7.282/330 @ 48.95, 11.132/660 @ 62.91. Let's assume my truck weighs 4200 pounds.

Force = Mass * Acceleration

Mass = 4200 pounds / 32.168 = 130.56 slugs

Acceleration = 60 feet in 2.606 seconds = 8.835 feet per second squared

Force = 4200 pound-mass * (8.835 / 32.168) G = 1,153.53 pound-force

Torque at hub = Force x Distance [radius]

Torque at hub = 1,153.5 pound-force * 1.208 feet = 1,393.82 pound-force-feet

Torque at driveshaft = Torque at Hub / rear gear

Torque at driveshaft = 1,393.82 pound-force-feet / 4.10 = 339.956 pound-force-feet

Torque after driveline losses = Torque at driveshaft / 0.85 [efficiency conversion]

Torque after driveline losses = 339.956 pound-force-feet / 0.85 = 399.948 pound-force-feet

Torque at input shaft = Torque after driveline losses / 2.74 [first gear ratio]

Torque at input shaft = 399.948 pound-force-feet / 2.74 = 145.966 pound-force-feet

OK, so mathematically, not accounting for external losses, my truck produces 146 pound-feet of torque with 29" tires and 4.10 gears.

Now let's reverse all of that and calculate with a 23.5" racing slick and if I remove the 66 pound spare tire and 12 pounds of weight per corner from the smaller tires:

145.966 pound force feet * 2.74 = 399.948 * .85 * 4.10 = 1,393.818 [this shouldn't change since the tire radius doesn't effect it] = Torque at hub

1,393.82 pound-force-feet / 0.98 feet = 1,423.475 pound-force

Force = 1,423.475 pound-force = 4086 pound-mass * (X / 32.168) G 

1,423.475 pound-force / 4086 pound-mass = 0.3438 G

0.3438 G = (X / 32.168) f/s^2

0.3438 * 32.168 = 11.206 feet per second squared [remember, this was 8.835 originally]

Acceleration = 11.206 feet per second squared = 60 feet in X seconds

sixty foot time = sqrt(60/11.206) = 2.314 seconds

per this calculator -> http://www.wallaceracing.com/etcalc.php

actual: 2.606, 7.503, 12.123 @ 55.56 (womping)
actual: 2.610, 7.282, 11.132 @ 62.91
calc'd: 2.606, 7.53, 11.83 @ 57.46
calc'd: 2.314, 6.68, 10.50 @ 64.71

If I can beat the calculated by 0.248 at the 330 [3.4% error] and 0.698/5.45 at the 660 [6.27% and 8.66% error respectfully] and those offsets hold true,

6.68 - .248 = 6.432 sec
10.50 - .698 = 9.802 sec
64.71 + 5.45 = 70.16 mph

6.68 * 0.966 = 6.453 sec
10.50 * 0.9373 = 9.84 sec
64.71 * 1.0866 = 70.31 mph

So basically, I SHOULD pick up 1.3 seconds and 7.25 mph in the 1/8 mile from the smaller tire
 

Last edited by magnethead; 12-22-2012 at 05:34 AM.
  #2  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:58 AM
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Well I certainly hope you're not on the naughty list this year!

As a joke I threw on my list 4.10 gears. When asked about what they were I explained and my girlfriend damn near took my head off.

Apparently I shouldn't be putting so much money into my truck, but just wait till I get my new sound system in it

2x KickerCVT10 subs
1x Sound Ordnance M1500 Amp
4x Kicker KS60 speakers
 
  #3  
Old 12-22-2012, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by sxrsil3nt
Well I certainly hope you're not on the naughty list this year!

As a joke I threw on my list 4.10 gears. When asked about what they were I explained and my girlfriend damn near took my head off.

Apparently I shouldn't be putting so much money into my truck, but just wait till I get my new sound system in it

2x KickerCVT10 subs
1x Sound Ordnance M1500 Amp
4x Kicker KS60 speakers
I'm starting a real good job soon with access to a lift, so there won't be much I won't be able to do. All of that is one month's pay so I figure I can at least hit items 1, 2, 3, and 4 immediately and save up for 5, 6, and 7. And it's all bolt-on's so even if/when I do put a 408 in it, everything will transfer. But I like the idea of a fast V6 :P I suppose I could just throw a set of .030 over 318 pistons in it and call it good. But the V6's are detuned from the factory so the most I can do is make it throw a rod, and when was the last time you heard of a chrysler motor throw a rod under 5000 RPM? They crack first...

Something else that's easy that I might do, is put an exhaust cut-out right after the Y pipe, so it catches the cat's and O2's but not all the tubing and muffler. That's ~$75. I know the V6 has a strange/crappy note, but if it unloads the system a little....

Also need to put a K&N filter in it...another $75.
 

Last edited by magnethead; 12-23-2012 at 04:03 AM.
  #4  
Old 12-23-2012, 03:52 PM
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My wishlist is completely out of control, too:

Front winch bumper w/winch
Parts to rebuild and re-gear 14-bolt rear axle I just picked up
Locker for front axle
Tom Woods CV rear driveshaft with SYE.
Bigger tires
MSD 6 ignition
Harland Sharp roller rockers

I know there's more that I just can't think of right now. I don't even want to add up all the prices because it's too depressing.
 
  #5  
Old 12-23-2012, 09:29 PM
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yea, I'm not paying for all that. LOL! My own is enough :P
 
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:04 AM
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Add 21-2400 stall convertor to the list, and changing the MSD box to the pricier but better 6520 box. Not a big fan of the price (nearly double what I was going to spend) but it's better for down the road.

With the convertor on the list now, I think that will solidly get me a few numbers dropped off. If I was predicting 9.50's before, I may hit the 9.20's or 9.10's. If I can break the 8's, I'll be happy.

In order of happening:

1. Performance Torque Convertor (21-2400 stall) $325

2. Methanol Injection ($268):
- a. Pump - $140
- b. Nozzle - $27
- c. Tubing - $30
- d. Tank - $11
- e. Blockoff Solenoid - $60

3. MSD ignition ($425):
- a. MSD 6A Plus Ignition Box - $300
- b. HVC Coil - $125

4. Custom Hemifever All-Out Tune (already paid for)

5. Powertrax No-Slip Locker - $490

6. Slicks and Wheels ($497):
- a. M/T 3019 slicks - $391
- b. Cragar 15x8's - $106

Total: $2,005...after variances, shipping, ect, figure it'll round off to around $2,200.
 
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:43 PM
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aside from the math in the first post... i aint too far behind yall in the wish list exceeding any realistic budget.. so until i can get the funds to do what i want to my rig, im fixin her redneck style... example, i have NO access to a welder (mig, tig, or arc) so im gonna do body work with pop rivets and sheet metal. my rig dont gotta look pretty, its just gotta perform. at the end of this entire project, i want it to have a payload capacity of 12k, but until i can get the motor, trans and rear end swapped out im gonna max this pig out at 6-7k in pulling and towing cap. the stock 00 dak with the 3.9 is just shy of 5k.. i figure with new springs and shocks in the ***, and the *** end geared at 3.92, with the tcase in 4 low, i should have the gearing i need to pull a trailer loaded with 5-6k of weight.. i know i have big dreams, but i already have USDOT #'s and M/C #'s, i just need my rig to be done so i can start making money shipping and transporting regionally in the north east, once my truck is fully completed with new motor, trans and rear end, ill think about going national, or atleast the entire east coast (maine to florida) and as far west as the Mississippi.. and NO before anyone asks, i didnt get the idea to do this from "Shipping Wars". ive wanted to do this waay before that show came out..

now im done ranting.... good luck with your wish lists guys

my wish list
5.9 v8 (gas) or 3cyl cummins diesel
nv4500 trans or 46re
4.10 rear end
boxed and reinforced frame
gooseneck hitch
class 4 hitch (bumper hitch)
LED lights all around
12 head LED Lightbar (Whelen Eng.)
and minium of 64 LED emergency lighting light heads.


and if possible at all, a concealed underlift for towing cars.. making my dak a undercover wrecker...
 
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:56 PM
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pretty sure the frame wont hold an underlift even when boxed, but a gooseneck should be doable once you box the frame. Class 4 bumper hitch is easy, you might see about finding a NV5600 box from a diesel, I think you can change the bellhousing to fit the gas motors and it has the stronger OD that you can tow in (My friend has a ranch, had the 5 speed NV box in it, always blew 5th gear off the shaft, literally. Put the 6 speed in it and it tows just fine in 6th). Reference: http://www.quad4x4.com/NV5600.htm

edit- 5600 bellhousing for a gasser doesn't exist...but if you go the 4bt cummins route....
 

Last edited by magnethead; 01-13-2013 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:34 AM
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i would love to get a diesel, but im probably gonna get a second dodge, probably a 3500 with a cummins and maybe i can put the underlift on the 3500.. haha
 
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Wes Garrett
i would love to get a diesel, but im probably gonna get a second dodge, probably a 3500 with a cummins and maybe i can put the underlift on the 3500.. haha
make sure you get the 6 speed. i forget what years it came. Else, if you get the 5 speed, weld the 5th gear sprocket and the end-nut onto the shaft.
 


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