For those who don't know what this acronym means; Keep It Simple Stupid. The same here. This is why I try NOT to overstate and list it out simply to make it simple for all to read. Even though you are experienced, others on here are not and, they need more direction than others.

Anyway, I'm assuming you've verified the following:

- NO voltage to the FUEL PUMP FUSE?

- NO voltage to the FUEL PUMP RELAY at PIN 86?

Moving onto your next question:

This is the CPS / camshaft position sensor. It's a Hall type.

Now, the question is:

Do you have POWER to the COIL?

The answer to that will help determine if a failsafe event has occurred or not. Start there and report back.

CM

 

OK no power to the coil either, but I guess that is part of the system shut down. Is that correct? So whats next?

 

I do have both control and controlled circuit voltage at the relays. I do not have coil power.

Squirrels, I did not disconnect the cam and crank sensor when I did the job and the wires are not pinched. They are unbothered. I tested relays, switching them around, they are in the right places.

 

Ok, we may have a failsafe event here. How this works on Dodge:

In the event of unsafe condition, low fuel pressure, no reference signal and, many other triggers, the PCM is programmed to cut all power TO the entire EFI system via the AUTOMATIC SHUTDOWN RELAY (ASD) found in the PDC.

This as you may or may not already know includes:

- The ignition system

- Fuel system

- Sensor system

The other FUEL PUMP relay test that we DID NOT perform was to have you test for voltage at PIN 87A

This PIN is the SUPPLY TO the FUEL PUMP MODULE. Measure the voltage at this point by doing the following:

Wrap a short piece of wire around PIN 87A. NOTE: Make sure it does not come into contact with ground.

Insert the FUEL PUMP relay back into the PDC.

Turn the KEY <ON>

Note voltage on PIN 87A of FUEL PUMP RELAY

Voltage should be ~12 volts

Do that and get back to me.

CM

 

I do not know your numbers of the terminals, but I do know all the info from that fuel system relay. The control side, is hot when the key is on and it is hot in and out, both terminals. When the key is off, it is dead. Normal. The controlled side though . I have the hot terminal, hot at all times. But when I check the other terminal ( there are only 4 that work on this relay ) it is not hot, even when the key is on. To me, that seems like a bad relay, but I have changed relays.

 

The numbers are based off wiring diagrams, schematics and component drawings of such relays. The PIN-OUT is labeled on the underside of the relays.

When the PCM energizes the ASD and FUEL PUMP relays, terminal 87 connects to terminal 30. This is the <ON> position. Terminal 87 supplies voltage to the rest of the circuit.

Both RELAYS are tied into the same supply that feeds PIN 86 which connects to PIN 85 which is connected to the PCM FUEL PUMP RELAY CONTROL. This energizes the coil via switched GND.

FUSE No 8 is a 20A fuse found at the PDC and, is the SOURCE of power TO the FUEL PUMP relay PIN 30. This is the one that is live at all time. Once energized, it (FUEL PUMP RELAY) supplies the FUEL PUMP MODULE VIA PIN 87A down to the wiring harness out of the PDC, down the firewall, into another connector, into another wiring harness and terminates at the FUEL PUMP connector.

I agree with you on the point of: "seems like a bad relay". For, it is known that if power / voltage is present on PIN 30 and, it's switched, one would expect to measure this same voltage on PIN 87A. This is where our problem is rooted however, we also must note that the PCM shuts down this feed after 3 seconds. But, in that amount of time, voltage should be witnessed at PIN 87A. So, the question is: do you measure voltage within 3 seconds at the FUEL PUMP RELAY PIN 87A or not? That is the question.

NOTE It should also be noted that the SUPPLY for the PCM is off the FUEL PUMP fuse. I forgot about this. If the FUEL PUMP fuse is NOT working, guess what, NO power is sent to the PCM. That would explain the NO BUS condition as well.

Now, one would ask themselves, why would power be absent on PIN 87A and, that may be due to:

- FAULT in the relay so, to CHECK that, we run another test and that is:

FUEL PUMP RELAY TEST: OPERATIONAL

-remove the relay from the PDC

-Jump the coil side wires to FUEL PUMP RELAY PIN 86 and PIN 85

-KEY <ON>

-Measure OHM reading across PIN 30 and PIN 87A

-Should meet OEM SPEC: 75 OHMs ±5 OHM

NOTE: After 3 seconds, the PCM will CUT power to the ASD and FUEL PUMP RELAYS. FYI on that. So, you've got only 3 seconds to obtain your measurement. After that, the KEY <OFF> will have to be performed and repeated to energize the relays.

In looking over this thread again, based on what I'm reading (NO POWER TO COIL or FUEL PUMP) I'm inclined to make an assessment that this is relating to an AUTOMATIC SHUT DOWN event that, we do NOT know the initiating factor for.

But, let's walk the path of the intake change.

a. we know that none of the master sensors (CKPS, CPS) were removed or touched so, we can almost rule that out - at least, for now anyway.

b. we know that the intake had to come off which means, that all sensor wires at the throttle body were removed. Those are:

- MAP
- IAC motor
- IAT
- ECT
- ECT GROUND- there's one little stud that is on the left hand side of the upper radiator hose. Make sure that is connected. For, another master sensor is actually that tiny little ECT (Engine Coolant Temperature) sensor and, it's ground. Without that ground connected, it will not work. For the PCM NEEDS the ECT input voltage to switch between OPEN and CLOSED loop mode at the PCM.

-Generator was removed. Check for SHORT, disconnected wire at rear of the generator. There's two smaller wires at the rear and one large HOT output that connects to the PDC HOT terminal. It's BLK/WHT That goes to isolated terminal in the rear of the Gen.

-There's a GND that terminates on top of the GEN mounting bracket that was removed.

- In the rear, there's the Solenoid Purge Valve that may or may not have been removed / disconnected. Make sure that connector is plugged in and that the valve is facing UP and connected with two VAC lines for IN / OUT.

I may have missed something but, you get the idea. Start walking the path and go from there. Meanwhile, I'll be around to see the results of the FUEL PUMP RELAY OHM TEST. IN fact, check the ASD relay in the same exact manner while you're at it.


CM

 

EUREKA !! it runs. When I was checking the wire harnesses on the left rear, I finally noticed that the most rearward intake bolt head had just barely captured the small two wire harness. The head just had bitten the edge of the wire and of course caused a direct short. Thank you so much for the aid and things to look for. The cab over design makes it tricky back in there and I'm an agile guy. Hope this helps others as well. Again, THANK YOU. . . . and of course it did end up being a K I S S item

 

SUMMARY

INCIDENT: A no start condition existed after the removal and installation of the intake manifold.

ROOT CAUSE: Pinched sensor wires under the intake bolt.

AFFECT This caused a DEAD SHORT in the 5-volt sensor supply thus, initiating the execution of the automatic shutdown command at the PCM thus, cutting all power to the EFI system. Failsafe mechanism was initiated.

SYMPTOMS:

- NO CLUSTER

- NO POWER TO COIL

- NO POWER TO PUMP

- NO POWER TO SENSORS

SOLUTION:

Repair the DEAD SHORT under the intake manifold bolt and / or repair wire as necessary

RESULT

Vehicle runs and all systems are back on-line.

CM

 

yeah you could put it that way

 

Hey cmc,

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