Shutter-Hesitation-Misfire
#41
08-14-2012 | 10:51 PM
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Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
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From: East Coast
No I just know it's not that.. I think i read that same TSB 10 times making sure i had it right..
But just throwing this out there.. check engine light is back off.. shutter is still present.. just not as hard as it was. Remember it's 'beyond a certain miss' when it triggers a CEL; so it could be missing ever so slightly to feel it but not trigger. I think that's what we are dealing with; maybee your is a little more progressed?
But just throwing this out there.. check engine light is back off.. shutter is still present.. just not as hard as it was. Remember it's 'beyond a certain miss' when it triggers a CEL; so it could be missing ever so slightly to feel it but not trigger. I think that's what we are dealing with; maybee your is a little more progressed?
#42
08-15-2012 | 10:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 10
From: Texas
Off by it self.. Last time this happend it did the same thing.. and it's been over a year or so now since..
As far as plugs I've changed them many times; stockers; autolites; copper; platium; the certain ones ppl here claim make the truck run better.. now im just running autolite basic plugs..
This is issue def. seems in the motor some where. I'm going down pay day here in 2 weeks to get the high pressure injector cleaning service. Just because the replacement of the missing cyl. (Which i have not done yet) might not cure the shake; it might be across all of them.. I think it would be worth the 40 bucks just to get them cleaned for the hell of it. If that does not fix it then we start looking at the mechanics of the ignition; valves, rockers, push rods, warn lobe on cam, timing sprocket and chain.
I also know that looking at my mounts they are a little hard and have some small hair line cracks here and there.. my dead beat brother thought that if they are too hard it can't absorb vibrations properly and could cause it. Even though my motor really does not move in the way a typical bad mount would he swears my engine moves very minute to the left/right depending on on the gear i go in. Reverse vs. Drive indicating mount problem. So rather its related to the shake or not i know they need to be replaced.
Rock Auto has all 3 mounts; motor and tranny for my year for about 80 bucks (including shipping- i'm rounding)
At one point I thought I cleared it by tightening up on one rocker i thought was loose. It might be of value to go back through and check the rockers and make sure they are tight to spec and not loose throwing off the amount they open/close. You might want to try that.. Would just cost you a few bucks for new valve cover gaskets.
I think once all this is said and done.. if still present i might just pull the heads and replace the head gaskets for the hell of it and inspect/clearn -polish the ports while im in there.. get rid of any carbon build up.. and do the kegger gasket.. while im in there.
As far as plugs I've changed them many times; stockers; autolites; copper; platium; the certain ones ppl here claim make the truck run better.. now im just running autolite basic plugs..
This is issue def. seems in the motor some where. I'm going down pay day here in 2 weeks to get the high pressure injector cleaning service. Just because the replacement of the missing cyl. (Which i have not done yet) might not cure the shake; it might be across all of them.. I think it would be worth the 40 bucks just to get them cleaned for the hell of it. If that does not fix it then we start looking at the mechanics of the ignition; valves, rockers, push rods, warn lobe on cam, timing sprocket and chain.
I also know that looking at my mounts they are a little hard and have some small hair line cracks here and there.. my dead beat brother thought that if they are too hard it can't absorb vibrations properly and could cause it. Even though my motor really does not move in the way a typical bad mount would he swears my engine moves very minute to the left/right depending on on the gear i go in. Reverse vs. Drive indicating mount problem. So rather its related to the shake or not i know they need to be replaced.
Rock Auto has all 3 mounts; motor and tranny for my year for about 80 bucks (including shipping- i'm rounding)
At one point I thought I cleared it by tightening up on one rocker i thought was loose. It might be of value to go back through and check the rockers and make sure they are tight to spec and not loose throwing off the amount they open/close. You might want to try that.. Would just cost you a few bucks for new valve cover gaskets.
I think once all this is said and done.. if still present i might just pull the heads and replace the head gaskets for the hell of it and inspect/clearn -polish the ports while im in there.. get rid of any carbon build up.. and do the kegger gasket.. while im in there.
#43
08-15-2012 | 05:02 PM
Thread Starter
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Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 683
Likes: 1
From: East Coast
Off by it self.. Last time this happend it did the same thing.. and it's been over a year or so now since..
As far as plugs I've changed them many times; stockers; autolites; copper; platium; the certain ones ppl here claim make the truck run better.. now im just running autolite basic plugs..
This is issue def. seems in the motor some where. I'm going down pay day here in 2 weeks to get the high pressure injector cleaning service. Just because the replacement of the missing cyl. (Which i have not done yet) might not cure the shake; it might be across all of them.. I think it would be worth the 40 bucks just to get them cleaned for the hell of it. If that does not fix it then we start looking at the mechanics of the ignition; valves, rockers, push rods, warn lobe on cam, timing sprocket and chain.
I also know that looking at my mounts they are a little hard and have some small hair line cracks here and there.. my dead beat brother thought that if they are too hard it can't absorb vibrations properly and could cause it. Even though my motor really does not move in the way a typical bad mount would he swears my engine moves very minute to the left/right depending on on the gear i go in. Reverse vs. Drive indicating mount problem. So rather its related to the shake or not i know they need to be replaced.
Rock Auto has all 3 mounts; motor and tranny for my year for about 80 bucks (including shipping- i'm rounding)
At one point I thought I cleared it by tightening up on one rocker i thought was loose. It might be of value to go back through and check the rockers and make sure they are tight to spec and not loose throwing off the amount they open/close. You might want to try that.. Would just cost you a few bucks for new valve cover gaskets.
I think once all this is said and done.. if still present i might just pull the heads and replace the head gaskets for the hell of it and inspect/clearn -polish the ports while im in there.. get rid of any carbon build up.. and do the kegger gasket.. while im in there.
As far as plugs I've changed them many times; stockers; autolites; copper; platium; the certain ones ppl here claim make the truck run better.. now im just running autolite basic plugs..
This is issue def. seems in the motor some where. I'm going down pay day here in 2 weeks to get the high pressure injector cleaning service. Just because the replacement of the missing cyl. (Which i have not done yet) might not cure the shake; it might be across all of them.. I think it would be worth the 40 bucks just to get them cleaned for the hell of it. If that does not fix it then we start looking at the mechanics of the ignition; valves, rockers, push rods, warn lobe on cam, timing sprocket and chain.
I also know that looking at my mounts they are a little hard and have some small hair line cracks here and there.. my dead beat brother thought that if they are too hard it can't absorb vibrations properly and could cause it. Even though my motor really does not move in the way a typical bad mount would he swears my engine moves very minute to the left/right depending on on the gear i go in. Reverse vs. Drive indicating mount problem. So rather its related to the shake or not i know they need to be replaced.
Rock Auto has all 3 mounts; motor and tranny for my year for about 80 bucks (including shipping- i'm rounding)
At one point I thought I cleared it by tightening up on one rocker i thought was loose. It might be of value to go back through and check the rockers and make sure they are tight to spec and not loose throwing off the amount they open/close. You might want to try that.. Would just cost you a few bucks for new valve cover gaskets.
I think once all this is said and done.. if still present i might just pull the heads and replace the head gaskets for the hell of it and inspect/clearn -polish the ports while im in there.. get rid of any carbon build up.. and do the kegger gasket.. while im in there.
#46
08-16-2012 | 11:54 AM
Record Breaker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 10
From: Texas
And Stall Test.. lets see what your TC is doing.. Mash on your breaks hard.. and give full throttle in Drive.. what is the highest RPM you hit before your wheels break free and or the highest RPM you get too in general.. 5 seconds only and let your truck sit and idle between test..
Then do reverse.. Same thing.. but see what RPM you peek at.. at full throttle for 5 seconds.. or when the wheels break free.
Remember to do this in open parking lot or something..
Then do reverse.. Same thing.. but see what RPM you peek at.. at full throttle for 5 seconds.. or when the wheels break free.
Remember to do this in open parking lot or something..
#47
08-16-2012 | 03:17 PM
Thread Starter
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Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 683
Likes: 1
From: East Coast
And Stall Test.. lets see what your TC is doing.. Mash on your breaks hard.. and give full throttle in Drive.. what is the highest RPM you hit before your wheels break free and or the highest RPM you get too in general.. 5 seconds only and let your truck sit and idle between test..
Then do reverse.. Same thing.. but see what RPM you peek at.. at full throttle for 5 seconds.. or when the wheels break free.
Remember to do this in open parking lot or something..
Then do reverse.. Same thing.. but see what RPM you peek at.. at full throttle for 5 seconds.. or when the wheels break free.
Remember to do this in open parking lot or something..
Check this out..google 'torque converter shudder' I'm going to change the trans filter & oil and add torque converter shudder treatment...or just add the treatment..I do know there's a chance of trans failure following service. More ofter than not a trans shop will have you sign a waiver before lube/filter change, depending on the conditions (miles, leaks, slippage, ect.)..the most popular product I've seen is called 
'lubegard instant shudder fixx'...some say it works in minutes, some say 50-100 miles, with a f/o change, without a f/o change, others say doesn't work while others say it's awesome..for $7 bucks I know I'm trying it...http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-230/Dr.+...t+Shudder+Fixx
Last edited by It's Me Patt; 08-16-2012 at 03:43 PM.
#48
08-16-2012 | 05:36 PM
Record Breaker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 10
From: Texas
And I can give you feed back right now on that.. I've changed my fluid 3 times.. once to just do it.. Fluid was fine though.. no shavings no nothing.. just a little gray on mag.. but was normal wear..
Second time I dont remember why.. i just did it i think i had a leak..
Last time i replaced the Gov. Transducer.. from a floating shift 2-3rd..
Master Mech Tranny guy that's been in the biz for years that is a family friend said to drop some SeaFoam Transmission in it or the Lucas.. He said if its really thin dont use it.. its junk.. Seafoam and the other is a thick tranny fluid smelling stuff..
Lots of people stand by it.. put it in and drive it like you stole it he said.. after a few miles if there is a problem with a sticking valve body (This would be 1st & 2nd valve body) it will free it up.. or if its in the TC. unless its shot and free spinning in the opposite direction.. (Which is why you test your TC Stall.. )
well needless to say.. no difference from the shudder.. does seems to shift a little smoother though.. little more powerful.. but other than that.. I don't think its the problem.
the other thing he said in the tranny that might cuase this kind of problem is a clogged line.. well all my lines are flowing properly already checked them.
He thought it was in the motor somewhere.
Second time I dont remember why.. i just did it i think i had a leak..
Last time i replaced the Gov. Transducer.. from a floating shift 2-3rd..
Master Mech Tranny guy that's been in the biz for years that is a family friend said to drop some SeaFoam Transmission in it or the Lucas.. He said if its really thin dont use it.. its junk.. Seafoam and the other is a thick tranny fluid smelling stuff..
Lots of people stand by it.. put it in and drive it like you stole it he said.. after a few miles if there is a problem with a sticking valve body (This would be 1st & 2nd valve body) it will free it up.. or if its in the TC. unless its shot and free spinning in the opposite direction.. (Which is why you test your TC Stall.. )
well needless to say.. no difference from the shudder.. does seems to shift a little smoother though.. little more powerful.. but other than that.. I don't think its the problem.
the other thing he said in the tranny that might cuase this kind of problem is a clogged line.. well all my lines are flowing properly already checked them.
He thought it was in the motor somewhere.
#49
08-17-2012 | 01:19 AM
Thread Starter
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Captain
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 683
Likes: 1
From: East Coast
And Stall Test.. lets see what your TC is doing.. Mash on your breaks hard.. and give full throttle in Drive.. what is the highest RPM you hit before your wheels break free and or the highest RPM you get too in general.. 5 seconds only and let your truck sit and idle between test..
Then do reverse.. Same thing.. but see what RPM you peek at.. at full throttle for 5 seconds.. or when the wheels break free.
Remember to do this in open parking lot or something..
Then do reverse.. Same thing.. but see what RPM you peek at.. at full throttle for 5 seconds.. or when the wheels break free.
Remember to do this in open parking lot or something..
#50
08-17-2012 | 11:32 AM
Record Breaker
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,849
Likes: 10
From: Texas
Here get a good read on this.
CONVERTER STALL TEST
Stall testing involves determining maximumengine speed obtainable at full throttle with the rearwheels locked and the transmission in D range. Thistest checks the holding ability of the converter over-running and transmission clutches. When stall test-ing is completed, refer to the stall speed chart anddiagnosis guides.
WARNING: NEVER ALLOW ANYONE TO STANDDIRECTLY IN LINE WITH THE VEHICLE FRONT ORREAR DURING A STALL TEST. ALWAYS BLOCKTHE WHEELS AND FULLY APPLY THE SERVICEAND PARKING BRAKES DURING THE TEST.
STALL TEST PROCEDURE
(1) Connect tachometer to engine. Position tachom-eter so it can be viewed from driver’s seat.(2) Check transmission fluid level. Add fluid if nec-essary.(3) Drive vehicle to bring transmission fluid up tonormal operating temperature. Vehicle can be drivenon road, or on chassis dynamometer, if available.(4) Block front wheels.(5) Fully apply service and parking brakes.(6) Open throttle completely and record maximumengine speed registered on tachometer. It takes 4-10seconds to reach max rpm.
Once max rpm hasbeen achieved, do not hold wide open throttlefor more than 4-5 seconds.
CAUTION: Stalling the converter causes a rapidincrease in fluid temperature. To avoid fluid over-heating, hold the engine at maximum rpm for nomore than 5 seconds. If engine exceeds 2500 rpmduring the test, release the accelerator pedal imme-diately; transmission clutch slippage is occurring.
(7) If a second stall test is required, cool downfluid before proceeding. Shift into NEUTRAL and runengine at 1000 rpm for 20-30 seconds to cool fluid.(8) Refer to Stall Test Analysis.
STALL TEST ANALYSIS
Stall Speed Too High
If the stall speed exceeds 1800-2300 rpm by morethan 200 rpm, transmission clutch slippage is indi-cated.
Stall Speed Low
Low stall speed with a properly tuned engine indi-cate a torque converter overrunning clutch problem.The condition should be confirmed by road testingbefore to converter replacement. A stall speed250-350 rpm below normal indicates the converteroverrunning clutch is slipping. The vehicle alsoexhibits poor acceleration but operates normally oncehighway cruise speeds are reached. Torque converterreplacement will be necessary.
Stall Speed Normal But Acceleration Poor
If stall speeds are normal (1800-2300 rpm) butabnormal throttle opening is required for accelera-tion, or to maintain cruise speed, the converter over-running clutch is seized. The torque converter willhave to be replaced.
Converter Noise During Test
A whining noise caused by fluid flow is normal dur-ing a stall test. However, loud metallic noises indi-cate a damaged converter. To confirm that noise isoriginating from the converter, operate the vehicle atlight throttle in DRIVE and NEUTRAL on a hoistand listen for noise coming from the converter hous-ing.
CONVERTER STALL TEST
Stall testing involves determining maximumengine speed obtainable at full throttle with the rearwheels locked and the transmission in D range. Thistest checks the holding ability of the converter over-running and transmission clutches. When stall test-ing is completed, refer to the stall speed chart anddiagnosis guides.
WARNING: NEVER ALLOW ANYONE TO STANDDIRECTLY IN LINE WITH THE VEHICLE FRONT ORREAR DURING A STALL TEST. ALWAYS BLOCKTHE WHEELS AND FULLY APPLY THE SERVICEAND PARKING BRAKES DURING THE TEST.
STALL TEST PROCEDURE
(1) Connect tachometer to engine. Position tachom-eter so it can be viewed from driver’s seat.(2) Check transmission fluid level. Add fluid if nec-essary.(3) Drive vehicle to bring transmission fluid up tonormal operating temperature. Vehicle can be drivenon road, or on chassis dynamometer, if available.(4) Block front wheels.(5) Fully apply service and parking brakes.(6) Open throttle completely and record maximumengine speed registered on tachometer. It takes 4-10seconds to reach max rpm.
Once max rpm hasbeen achieved, do not hold wide open throttlefor more than 4-5 seconds.
CAUTION: Stalling the converter causes a rapidincrease in fluid temperature. To avoid fluid over-heating, hold the engine at maximum rpm for nomore than 5 seconds. If engine exceeds 2500 rpmduring the test, release the accelerator pedal imme-diately; transmission clutch slippage is occurring.
(7) If a second stall test is required, cool downfluid before proceeding. Shift into NEUTRAL and runengine at 1000 rpm for 20-30 seconds to cool fluid.(8) Refer to Stall Test Analysis.
STALL TEST ANALYSIS
Stall Speed Too High
If the stall speed exceeds 1800-2300 rpm by morethan 200 rpm, transmission clutch slippage is indi-cated.
Stall Speed Low
Low stall speed with a properly tuned engine indi-cate a torque converter overrunning clutch problem.The condition should be confirmed by road testingbefore to converter replacement. A stall speed250-350 rpm below normal indicates the converteroverrunning clutch is slipping. The vehicle alsoexhibits poor acceleration but operates normally oncehighway cruise speeds are reached. Torque converterreplacement will be necessary.
Stall Speed Normal But Acceleration Poor
If stall speeds are normal (1800-2300 rpm) butabnormal throttle opening is required for accelera-tion, or to maintain cruise speed, the converter over-running clutch is seized. The torque converter willhave to be replaced.
Converter Noise During Test
A whining noise caused by fluid flow is normal dur-ing a stall test. However, loud metallic noises indi-cate a damaged converter. To confirm that noise isoriginating from the converter, operate the vehicle atlight throttle in DRIVE and NEUTRAL on a hoistand listen for noise coming from the converter hous-ing.