After my "hello-post" here the introducing of my project.

My target isn't the most powerful engine ever.. for this i would use a blower. What i want is pushing the characteristic from the stock engine to a higher level.
The second target is, that this "leveling" isn't so mutch visible from outside. But here in switzerland, for streetlegal use, no modifications on the intake and exhaust side are allowed. Therefore I do not want to invest more than one working day to make it to look like stock for the technical examination every two years.
And, last but not least, this car is a daily driver.

The basic, a used stock 360 engine block it is in my garage. Also a brand new set of the Thorlay THY-630Y-C header
But at now, nothing more. I want to build this engine from ground up.

At this time, i don't know how far i can go withe the 360 engine. 426ci or better 408?

My first Idea is, to buy this parts an one source... hughes.
HUG 426-RACE-KFH plus
HUG 2094 or HUG 2095 or HUG 2097 (me to decide between these three is difficult for me. That would be the consequences?)

On the other Hand... the Eagle Kit

On the compression ratio i plan the maximum at 1:11 because of the fuel quality. We have here in switzerland the best fuel in europe with 98 or 105 ROZ, but switzerland is small an i like to drive long distances

Is this combination, especially the first, working? What about the camshaft and the lifter? What about the Intake, better a "big gulp"? What abut the Hughes FI AirGap, maybe this is for high engine speeds, but i want the power out of the cellar.

That this aren't the only parts i will need, i know that. Bigger oil pump, a completely new build up cooler concept (at now i only have a small engine oilcooler is installed) , maybe a other Torque Converter with different stall, .... and may may parts more an some work at the engine block it self...

 

All of those heads are 58cc combustion chambers, which will give you about a 10.5:1 compression ratio. Streetable, but, going to require premium gas. (93 octane if you were in the states, don't know how they rate it where you are....) 2.02 valve on the Edelbrock heads.... that should go well with a 426.... expensive with all the CNC machine work. (choice number 3) Almost 10 grand though.... and that doesn't include machine work, or assembly....

Make sure your block has enough cylinder wall thickness to be punched out to the 4.030 bore required. There have been rumors of the walls being too thin for such an exercise.....

Can you get the aluminum heads past the inspectors?? If you can, go that route. (less prone to spark-knock)

What about the valve covers? Inspectors gonna have issues with those? (I should think that 'dress-up' items wouldn't be an issue... maybe....)

The latter two also come with tunes, which is going to be a requirement in any event. Not sure what their policy is on 're-tunes' (if the original two don't work as well as you would like.....) Could go with your first option on the top end, and a Hemifever custom tune.... (365.00 american) He will do retunes for ya without an issue. Would probably also need a wide-band O2 sensor, and the ability to log engine data though. (another expense.)

You 'should' only have to swap the intake, and headers out to give the 'appearance' of stock... (I am not seeing anything for full sized dodge trucks at the location you linked though, got a part number I can search on?)

If you go with shortie headers, the stock manifolds will bolt right back in, long-tubes will complicate matters more. Cat and y-pipe are another consideration..... can you replace the stock pieces with 'stock looking' better pieces?

Also need to know what YEAR your truck is. It does make a difference.

Big thing with doing the swap for the inspections is going to be your tune. Changing the intake and exhaust is going to REQUIRE you to retune, for the engine to run worth beans...... and the 426 is going to have zero power above about 3500 RPM with the stock kegger, unless it is HIGHLY modified... (all on the inside, so, it will 'look' stock)

As for the cam... the one in choice 1 will be friendlier on the street, and be a little better with the stock intake/exhaust. The other two (which both appears to use the same cam) probably won't like the stock intake..... keep your RPM below 3K when doing the inspection thing.

Probably going to need better injectors as well..... something with a slightly higher flow rate.

WILL need a new flex-plate as well, as the 360 is externally balanced from the factory, and the 426 is internally balanced.

Something else you will need to include here though, is the trans. The stock auto won't last long behind a 426...... you are going to need something MUCH stouter.... Mega-Viper from PATC springs immediately to mind.....

What size tires do you plan to run?

 

The Hughes 426 kit can't be used with any forced induction due to the top of the piston above the 1st ring land being so thin. So forget that.

The Eddy heads are more like 63cc, I had to cut mine .030 to get 58cc.

Stay away from an Eagle cast stroker crank, Eagle forged is ok, but there are better cranks available.

If your bores will clean up with a 10 or 20 over do that...ood to leave a little meat in the cyllinder walls for a rebuild later on, it's stonger too.

Get a Mopar M1 4 bbl with 2 bbl adaptor and a F&B 58 TB. Or go for broke and get a Indy 360-3M manifold and a 4 bbl TB. Have a pro spec your cam, don't plan on getting that info off a forum, stock lifters are fine, and torque converter is the last thing you do. what gears are you running in the rear?

Don't need a bigger oil pump as in High volumn, stock is fine, maybe better, I run a stock melling on my 408, but I do have a deep oil pan with a bigger pick up tube.

My 408 is 11.5:1, but I'm NA, watch the compression ration with a blower. I think you'll want to be closer to 9:1 Pay attetion to your quench and you can get by with 91 octane, I run 91 in mine.

Buy the book "How to build Big Inch small block Mopars", it's on Amazon. Above all, get a game plan and stick to it.

 

first of all... .THANK YOU FOR YOUR DETAILED REPLAYS!

Thank you a lot for this explanation. In this case it will be the third one, HUG 2097.
This is something about which I am concerned. So, 10min ago, i went to my garage and take som quick and dirty hand measureemts an the block i will use for this.
Attahced you will find and a screenshot from the excel file i used quick and dirty for visualize this for myself.
The thickness of the cylinderwall by a bore of 4.03in will be on 95% of the stock thickness.
So, i think, no rpoblem... is'nt it?
I think the cylinderheads are not a problem. The Valve-Cover are more interesting. I thik here i have to try the original one for the inspection-day.
Ohh, this in'nt a doge truck... this is an '98 Jeep Grand Cherokee LX withe the 360 magnum.

For the settings/fine tune of the car I am planning a visit to a good friend who knows it better than me. This has me already modified the orginal ECU. I also have the prgrammer-tool.
I think on the intake side a have something to do. I plan the big gulp throttle body HUG 5502. And i will adopt my , K&N FIPK II by using this one. The space from the throttle body to the hood are very small.
I will use the Thorlay THY-630Y-C header that i have in my garage. I know that this one will be the biggest problem on the inspection day!
After the collector i will build my own exaoust system with highflow cat an my hihly loved Flowmaster SUV 50. All this in 3" (stock are between 2.5 and 2.7"). So i can switch everything after the collectors in one piece to the stock-parts.
Now we hit the most interesting point for me. The characteristics of this mashine!
What i wont is excactly the opposide of what you describe!! I need the power below 3500 rpm. Because this car has a automatic gear shift. If the Power are only present above 3500 rpm i could use the power only in kickdown or in the unrelaxed-mode.
But i love the relexed mode and reach the 3500 rpm only on the highway with more than 100 mph.
Bud Spencer not an Children on coffein
In my opinion the characteristics are directly depens on the camshaft side, the exhaust, the intake, and the valve steering. And al little bit on the electronik side.
Nevermind about the inspection day. If this car can drive to the inspection, it never need to runs good. It only have to drive.
So, i think i have to combine the HUG 2095 or HUG 2097 with a other camshaft. Maybe the one from the HUG 2094 or a completely different that based on my specific engine an my wishes.
I think so. You know what the best fit here. I've read that are compatible to Ford.
Ohh, thanks for that hit. So i will oder an neutral flexplat.
[Realy? I have the 46RE an the J249 transfer case.
31" AT... the same as stock


Sorry, you missunderstand me. I don'nt want to use any forced induction. Anybody in germany do this, and i don't want to walk trodden paths ;-)
And for the inspection it is the worst way.
So if i undersand that right, the compession will be between the 10:1 (62cc) and 9.98:1 (64cc). Right.
This will be moderate, but with the premium fuell here in switzerland 11:1 are possible.
But maybe a higher compression isn?t good für the caracteristics i wont in this engine.
What you mean with "i had to cur mine 0.03". Sorry i dont understand that.
The Eagle Kits are the first i found, many mounth ago. The more I think about it I am of the opinion that I will do as much as possible, order from a supplier. So Eagle is/was only option if Huges are scrap.

Uunderstood! what you say in this connection to my measurements above?
Sorry, what do you mean. Don't understand that.
I understand you correctly, I do not use the lifter form the Huges performance packages. Better use the stock lifter?
Why? I was thinking that the parts tailored to the camshaft.
Jep, it is so.
thx! Deeper oil pan are very difficult because on the jeep there is very little space in this area. I have increased the volume of oil by using a large oil cooler (stock he has'nt one).
Forgett about the blower. This isn't a option.
Bought! I did not think that there is a book on this particular subject.

EDIT: The picture attached are in "cm"

 

You have to measure the actuall cylinder wall thickness. These blocks are not Siamesed bores. Machine shop will have a specific tool for the job. (and will prolly measure before boring as a matter of course.)

With the stock kegger, all power will indeed be below 3500 RPM. You will have nothing above that. The engine will quite literally run out of breath. Even with the hughes air-gap, or the mopar M-1, you will lose a little bit of bottom end, but, with the big inch motor...... I seriously doubt you will notice.

What tuning equipment does your friend have, and how well does he like it, and how much did it cost??? (also, if you wouldn't mind, please post the info in this thread.)

The stock trans, whether it be in a dodge, or a jeep, has a weak torque converter, poorly designed governor pressure solenoid/sensor, and is valved for 'comfort' shifts..... all of which will lend themselves to your trans taking a dump in relatively short order behind the kind of power you are going to be developing. I would bet that the stock trans won't last a month behind that motor.

 

I had feared. But the 95% (see attachment) appear to me very little.

Yes, it is... it feels terrible and it hurts to feel that the engine praying for mor air.
I've already driven the stock machine had only installed the Airgap. The loss was less noticeable but not dramatic.
I'm not too worried since beause the rest of the hardare will be add enough power to to compensate this effect.

Don't know... an the costs, never mind... this is hobby.. and hobby means the most wast of money and time for the lowest sense and value ;-)

The transmission will be the next after the engine. I have to figure out how the old characteristics match with the new engine.

 

I thought you wanted a blower...If not get the Hughes 426 kit, it has great reviews on Moparts.com.

On a roller cam, the lifters are not matched to the cam and there are very few lifter Manufactures out there making
lifters for a Magnum block so most come from the same source.

I had to have my heads shaved .030 to raise the comprsion 1 point over stock, so more like 10:1, and the SRP pistons I'm using give me about 11.05:1

 

ahhhh, now i understand... thank you!!

And i realize that i made a misstake in my excel sheed.
A forgot to subtract the size-magnification from the bore 2-times on the space between the cylinders.

New i lost nearly 10% from this space between the cylinders.
And yes, this is not the cylinderwall. But the block are so stupid moved (by myself) unter my workbench that i'm now not be able to turn the block alone to measure from the bottom.

P.S. Know anybody how i can expand the space that i can use for attachments?

 

Yeah, ok, that is very true. But, I am interested anyway. If you could find out, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

this will be relevant at the last steps in this project... and i will keeps you all up to date.