Crank sensor tells the PCM that the engine is turning, and how fast. Cam sensor tells the PCM which cylinder is where, so it knows which injector to fire, and which plugs to fire. (two plugs per coil pack.) I suspect that it needs BOTH signals to start the engine..... after that, it may just ignore the cam sensor. But, not 100% sure on that. So, either sensor being flaky, could cause a no-start condition. One would think though, that if either sensor wasn't sending a signal, the PCM would whine about it...... Do you have any pending codes???

 

I've had several bad tps's and they can cause erratic starting issues. Typically if you open the throttle a little it will start if thats the problem.

 

Unfortunately I'm not getting any codes - stored or pending...
I even tested out what the coworker said to me the other day and just laid on the starter... About 8-10 seconds (excessive, I know). Did this several times giving the starter/cabling time to cool off between attempts. Back when we were still in the running HORRIBLY phase of this thread- cranking for that long always started bringing up codes - even remember getting "intermittent loss of cam or crank signal" at times back then - before replacing the MAP, plugs and TPS sensors - but that was before I swapped out the crank sensor... Ever since I put that one in I haven't gotten codes for crank or cam at all.

The CAM sensor is JB welded in to place though. That's whats stopped me so far in replacing that one - I've got two sitting the the back seat of the truck.... The flange that gets bolted to the engine - they must have snapped her replacing it before because there's a big ol gob of JB weld in that slot... Been debating if when I inspect the oil pump if I just remove almost all of the accessories so I can get to that thing and chisel off the JB weld and extract the bolt (or drill/tap for a slightly larger bolt in it's place)...

Was talking with a coworker as I was fixing his machine today who's also into cars and the said he had the same symptoms as me on one of his cars in the past but it also would randomly die and/or run really bad - said he replaced both his cam and crank sensors to fix it.. At this point my truck runs really well and has never died since the TPS replacement...

Hmmm... I'll try that tomorrow morning when I fire it up. Though I feel like it has to be Crank or Cam related.... Not because my TPS is brand new - learned not to trust that! Haha! But because the RPMs dont jump/move at all when I crank the engine. When it does start as soon as I turn the key to crank the needle gives a little jump and a second later (sometimes less) it fires up. For now, I've resorted to just watching the needle as soon as I turn the key and if I don't see a movement I switch it off and retry. Haha! I sure do look dumb doing it though!

You know what... Now that I Think about it... The truck fired off first key-turn every time there for almost a week right after replacing the TPS.... Hmm... Now Im kind of curious what my TPS signal voltage is again.... I've got another one sitting in the back seat of the truck! Hahahaha

.... I feel like I've got at least two of just about every sensor for this truck at this point and have a spare of every one I've bought sitting in the back seat... Call me v10 Magnum Moses, I guess! HAHA!

 

Was doing research on the oil pump removal earlier in the week and found I'd need a special puller for the balancer...? Forgot to get one during the week so figured I'd save that for next weekend. Cleaned the oil pressure valve/spring and replaced the washer with a slightly thicker one I found to see if it made any difference in warm idle pressure for now.

Next I attempted to get the broken bolt for the CAM sensor removed - unfortunately I was unsuccessful... I just welding on nuts and the stud would shear off closer and closer to the cover and finally had it snap about 1/8" or so deep into the cover to where I wasn't comfortable with building a weld back up for another attempt... I do not have a right angle drill to get in there to make a hole for a bolt extractor... Might see if I can't borrow one from work or end up buying one, we'll see. Haha!

Put in a brand new CAM sensor while I was in there and made a little bracket to try and help hold it in place. Went to fire it up and still took a few turns of the key.. came close to replacing the crank sensor again but decided I'd work on my aftermarket gauges since the truck will technically start no matter what - just a matter of key cycles. Haha!

Got the coolant temp sensor t'd off at the stock location on the t-stat housing... Seems alright but I don't know how I feel about it... Ran the truck for a few minutes and didn't seem like it was going to leak...? Is there another 1/8 NPT spot for a coolant temp sensor? Didn't seem like there'd be anywhere else for me to put it.

Is there a 1/8 NPT spot on the trans for a tranny temp sensor? The one I have now is that thread but if I've got to get a different one I will. Was going to look into this... My F350's E4OD put it in the test port on the driver's side.

What about for an oil temp sensor? My gauge is pressure/temp and I've got the sensor and wiring ready - just can't seem to find a good spot to put it..?

Can't really find any "aftermarket gauges location" info for our v10's..... Only did a quick search when I was in the shop though...

Managed to get all the wiring for what I've got in place and routed into the cab and up to the pillar (Oil pressure and coolant temp) and tranny temp wiring up the pillar with long leads prepped for getting to the tranny. Still need to add split loom and get thing secured.

Unfortunately I was stopped to go to a birthday party for one of the wife's coworkers - which I'm at right now.
Not really into parties... Figured I'd have a few beers and do research while I'm here. Haha

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Isn't there a specific procedure for installing the cam sensor? I *think* it is possible to install it too far in/out, such that it either gets broken off, or doesn't read consistently????? Procedure should be detailed in the service manual.

 

I'll have to look in the manual when I get home....

That could definitely make sense! When I was messing around I stuck my finger in there and seemed like there wasn't really any sort of "stop" to gotto... Also the sensor seemed to be able to wiggle around in all sorts of directions...

I read about using a sticker-like shim to set it to something in the past- why I was putting my infer in the hole to figure out what that would be set against... Couldn't figure it out. My sensors didn't come with anything to shim with.

Truck still ran well with it set where I had it set. Though from your last post - maybe it doesn't use the cam sensor after startup...?

I will say - where I have the sensor right now is slightly more "in" than where they had it JB welded in place to before.

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There was a sticky shim paper, maybe .0015-.0020, near the thickness of the matchbook cover you'd use to roadside gap your ignition points back in the day. Old aftermarket parts still included it, current chinneese, no apparently.
Crankshaft could be coming up on either exhaust or compression for example, in it's 720deg of cycle. Cam sensor is just there to tell the PCM where in the cycle the engine is. That big toothed wheel on the crank triggers the combustion events.
If you have an intermittent problem, that is getting worse, you likely have a wiring issue.
The reason there are no new parts available for these trucks is they are all stuck in discarded/parked vehicles nobody finished fixing after forum parrots told the owner to replace functioning sensors/coils/sparkplugs with new ones, then ran out of 'helpful' ideas.
I don't necessarily recommend it, but if you want to get off into the weeds, a guy I talked to a bit few years ago on another forum, E4ODnut, had success running his '95 V-10 off of a MegaSquirt setup. He figured out the oddball Lamborghini supplied 90/54deg timing and such. Look him up.
I needed to prime/pressurize the engine with oil before starting. I built a T into the pressure sensor location and used a diaphragm pump to prime the engine. Put the oil temp sensor in a similar T on the back of the oil filter boss. Would be reasonably accurate. If you are adventurous, tap the filter boss.
I asked about fuel pressure awhile back. Acting up when your issues are occurring?


Puller I suggested awhile back. Amazon or EBay, not expensive.


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Yeah, I was reading the CAM install procedure and it's pretty involved! Haha! I'm kind of shocked the truck starts and runs fine with how I just slapped ti in there... Also - yeah - there's supposed to be a shim in there... Wondering after reading the procedure if I can scribe a mark on the sensor body and use that as a reference for placement...? I definitely need to get the stud out of there so I can bolt the sensor properly..
I'd say the intermittent starting issue isn't necessarily getting worse or better..? Well, actually, I'd say on an overall average it's gotten significantly better. Fired it up twice today after getting the gauges all finished wiring and then again to move it - fired up first turn of the key both times. Still gotta find a good spot on the trans to get the sensor installed - was reading that there's inspection ports on the passenger side I can use.

As for parts - I've been watching the marketplaces for v10's and there's quite a few that have been left abandoned that I keep wanting to take a jab at with the knowledge I've gained with this one so far... Or just see what original parts they've got on em. Just not sure how much trouble I'd get in if I started bringing more trucks home. HAHAHA!

Oh dang - I'm not sure I'll be going THAT far! Though I think it'd be an interesting read! I'll have to look him up.

As for the priming/pressurizing of the pump.... Did you have to do that because it wouldn't build pressure at all? Or was it a warm oil pressure issue?
My truck will fire up at 40-50PSI and at 2k hold solid at 60PSI. Its only at warm idle that the oil pressure gets into the single digits... Though I've been noticing that at startup it does sort of sound like the pump(or something) could be starting out dry...?for the first .5-1second after the truck fired up there's this sort of rattle...? Easiest way I can describe it is sort of like when a hydraulic pump is in cavitation...? So maybe I do need to try a priming method..? I've already got a T in place! Haha

Fuel pressure - I haven't kept a gauge on it at ALL times. But for a few days I tried to monitor it and the fuel pressure was always good. Well, in the mid to high 40's. Whether the truck fired up or not, so I assumed the fuel pressure wasn't necessarily the issue.

Thanks for the picture! I've officially got that puller on order!

 

"Thanks for the picture! I've officially got that puller on order! "
Then my apologies, this is the correct one for the damper NOT the power steering pulley.

Not much help at all. I sent both to my son awhile back, grabbed the wrong one to attach. Standard 3 jaw pullers do not fit/grab well. Space too tight. I got lucky once, then struggled. This one works, period.
I pre-pressurized the engine for short block rebuild startup.
Lifter rattle may be the startup noise, then the block pressurizes.
If your trans gauge is temp, the aftermarket deep pans include a boss in the driver's side to thread the sensor into. I have a B&M extended pan, finned aluminum, drain plug/temp bosses, very nice. Could likewise drill stock pan or T the rear return line. If you drop the pan for filter/fluid service, drain plug luxury could be installed along with temp sender. Would also be the time to adjust line pressure if necessary.
The fuel pressure should hold for quite awhile after shutdown. If not, the regulator on top of the pump is bad or injectors are leaking. I've had both problems.
Parked V-10s? I picked a 4x4 up off the street complete, broken piston, one from CoPart, wrecked. Have the 4x4, scrapped the other, kept V-10 specific parts. Both dirt cheap.
Right now if I found an OBDII '96 4x4 I'd buy it for the drivetrain and with an eye to changing out my non-programmable PCM and unobtanium ignition control module setup.
Apologize again for dumb picture error.
Good luck, Mike.

 

Also, the 'ghost' of the cam sensor outline has worked fine for me to reinstall it. Scribed the outline to the timing cover anyhow. Would have to redo for new sensor.