Xfeejayx,

I am very impressed that you were willing to take the time to search out those details about the SAE Super Mileage Contest.

Please take all of the following as just honest discussion
not criticism.

I called a friend at NC State Engineering School who has been the faculty advisor for their Super MPG effort in the past, and asked him about this.
I called him because Duke U Engineering has never participated in the SAE MPG contest or Baja,
just the SAE Racecar, SAE Electric Car projects, plus the "Legends" NASCAR student contests.

He said that his memory was that the
MIT team SAE Super MPG team had a car in the past that used a
'Plasma Reformer' that ionized the air to fuel ratio,
and that since this device used the electicity from an engine powered alternator,
it was allowed by the SAE rules committee, but after considerable discussion.
I have sent an email to Professor John Heywood to ask about this.

Since this bogus HHO generator also uses engine alternator electricity,
it might be allowable under the rules.
The key thing in question is the chemicals added to the little reaction vessel.
A tiny bit of hydrogen peroxide appears to be used, and hydrogen peroxide is a high btu content chemical, that of course has been a component of rocket fuel.

I agree that acetone could not been added to the iso-octane for the SAE Super MPG competition.

If you search past posts you will actually find posts by me where I have complained that iso-octane used to be the standard 'test gasoline' used by all labs,
and that it is shame that is no longer the standard procedure.
By using iso-octane, the results of past year's competitions can be compared 'apples to apples' which is a good thing.

I still contend that there is a 98% chance
that both acetone and HHO are totally bogus.

Neither has passed a good SAE Type I, II, III or IV test
and have in fact failed
the tests by Mythbusters TV,
and Popular Science magazine.

The thought has occurred to me while writing this,
that there would be

NO BETTER TIME OR PLACE

to test both acetone and HHO generators,
than if the SAE would take the top two Super MPG student built vehicles next year
and have them do a
two vehicle SAE/TMC Type IV MPG test
where one vehicle would have acetone
and one vehicle have HHO generator fitted
on the first trip, and then on the 2nd trip
the two vehicles would swap over devices
and repeat the same test road course.

When special vehicles are getting around 1000 MPG,
and are being run by independent 'experts'
familiar in all things and trickery pertaining to fuel economy,
and follow the best possible test procedures
the smallest differences in MPG
would show up.

The last day of the SAE Super MPG Contest
after the winners and runner up are chosen,
would be the ideal time to
prove or disprove many MPG myths and frauds.

SAE might volunteer to do this as a public service to the USA.

 

holy hell hank...alright, one thing at a time. as you said, discussion, and only constructive criticism.

i don't quite get why you're impressed by me looking that up. plenty of people around the forum post plenty of links to help people out on stuff. in my case, I knew where to find the rules, so I did.

regardless the alternator, the weight the rig will add, and even if they accepted the hydrogen peroxide since it's only a catalyst, "All energy used for propulsion of the vehicle must come from the fuel" HHO burning is energy, coming from somewhere other than "the fuel".

and if you think there is a technicality in there that allows water to be used (since the are allowed water bottles), think again. SAE judges will look at that and say "we know what you're trying to do, you can't do it". We've had rules made up on the spot at competition during inspection on a whim. our team has been the cause of a couple.

yes that would be a great for them to do, and would put this whole thing to the test. But don't hold your breath for SAE to do it, especially not in a student run competition. so, till pigs fly, i'll have to take what i can do in my driveway with my truck and the rig now sitting in my garage.

i still don't believe it will work, i still hope it does, i know i'm going to find out.

 

Heirbound
I will be coming back from Las Vegas that week. I will try to get to the event. Do you have a link to the event or somewhere I can view the specs of this event?

 

so messing with the unit (and what a piece of crap unit it is), says i need a vaccum line to t into to pull the hydrogen out. don't see anything too obvious. any ideas? Brake boost line is something I'd rather not mess with.

 

need help to get an hho built and installed i do have the ***** tired of talking must get it done

 

There's really not one place where you can find everything, however hhoforums.com is good, and a search for hho on youtube and some time and you'll learn a lot.

xfeejayx, sounds like you got the spiral wire tower design, it's a piece, and will not make enough gas for your truck.. Sorry, you need something in the 1.5 to 2 lpm range for the Hemi to see any good gains. Something in the .75 to 1.2 lpm if you do not want to mess with your O2 sensors or MAP sensor, however less HHO = less mileage improvement.

The vacuum will help, your unit can produce a lot more if it's not having to fight the push the gas through the length of hose to the engine, bubbler, and flame arrestor before it makes it to the intake. I do not have mine hooked to a vacuum source YET, however my unit produces 2 lpm right at the cell, however when I hook everything else to it, hose, bubbler, flame arrestor, it then only produces around 1.5 lpm to the engine.

Again, if you have the spiral wire tower design, give it to a buddy who has a 4 cylinder engine, it's simply not enough for your truck, unless you want to hook about 6 of them under the hood. Get a good plate design, or build a Smack Booster.



There's a pic of my cell, 8 plates arranged +NN- -NN+, it produces a little more heat than I'd like do to the fact there's not enough neutral plates, but it still does a pretty good job...

The other thing I must stress is constant monitoring. I've been experimenting for a little while now, and have seemed to got somewhere I like, running around 19 amps and producing 2 lpm, running around 155 degrees. I use Distilled white vinegar with a teaspoon of baking soda per gallon. I've had a lot of people tell me not to use baking soda in the vinegar, but it gives me the results I want.

Here's my setup:
Cell:


Fill/Reservoir (soon to be removed)


Bubbler


Flashback Arrestor and Intake:


Cell Control Box:


Pre HHO Mileage:
13-City / 16-Combined / 19-Highway

Post HHO Mileage:
15-City / 19-Combined / 24-Highway

I also have O2 extenders on my truck, and a MAP sensor enhancer. The HHO does effect the O2 sensors a lot, without the generator my sensors push back around 3.2 volts to the computer, with the generator on, they push back 4ish volts to the computer telling the computer the truck is running lean. You have to do something to counteract this process, thus the MAP and O2 extenders..

 

yea i got the tower design right now, 3 of them
All i'm really looking for is the little bit of a bump with this system. like i said, it's a piece, and it's gonna get returned. I just need to convince myself that it is good enough for me to spend the time/money to make/get a good one.

how did you fool the O2 sensor?

 

I went back and edited my last post about the O2 sensor. I've spent a LOT of time on this over the last month, to the point the wife finally blew a gasket about it, lol. It's honestly kinda fun to mess around with it, and I've got a little over $200 in the project right now. However I'm going to sell my generator to a buddy with a V6 Explorer, and buy a different kind that puts out about 3 lpm. It's a little pricey, but I've already proved that this has worked, 25% increase in highway miles, extra 130 miles per highway tank (which most of my tanks are) = about $25 savings per tank. I'm hoping with the extra hho output the new cell is going to do, I can tweak everything a little more and get that tank savings a little higher... Either way, with one of these puppies on there, it's buy 4 tanks, get the next tank free basically...

 

by the O2 extender, are you talking about the spark plug fouler trick?
got a link to the map enhancer? I'm not sure what that is supposed to do, but do you think it helped?

why do you need neutral plates?

 

Yeah, the O2 extenders are the spark plug fouler trick. They must be used on the O2 sensors prior to the cats.



Sorry, I do not have a pic of my MAP enhancer, I added it about a week ago, yes I believe it does help, but do not run one without your generator operating good. I normally have to run stock until my generator is warmed up (about 2 minutes) then I can flip on the MAP enhancer. The MAP has 2 settings, 1 for city driving and 1 for hwy. You can lean your engine out a little more on the hwy saving you some more fuel. I don't do this though, and just keep it on 1 setting. I'm sure I could go leaner than what I've got mine set at, but it works well for me right now. Here's a pic from the eBay auction I bought mine off of: