Five to seven models to be cut
Noob Assassin
Joined: Jul 2005
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RE: Five to seven models to be cut
ORIGINAL: mileshuff
The Durango is the perfect size for me. I don't want a traditional large style like the Suburban or Tahoe.
The Durango is the perfect size for me. I don't want a traditional large style like the Suburban or Tahoe.
Okay, on to the current lineup....
Jeep:
Keep - Grand Cherokee, Wrangler, Liberty
Trash - Commander, Compass, and Patriot
Build - The Jeep Wrangler pickup - throw a Bluetec diesel in it, and call it a day
Redesign - The Liberty, offer the V6 out of the Dodge Nitro as the high end model
Concept - Consider some kind of turbo AWD rally vehicle....
Chrysler:
Keep - T&C, 300, Sebring Coupe & Convertible, PT cruiser or its replacement
Trash - Pacifica, Aspen, Crossfire, Sebring Sedan
Build - Some kind of high end Chrysler coupe - not a Crossfire P.O.S. - something like a Cadillac XLR or a Firepower (Basically a 2dr V8 coupe)Redesign - PT Crusier - honestly, a good refresh with a better powerplant would make it fun to drive again. I liked the VW Beetle comparison.
Dodge: (I'm excluding the Ram Pickup in this)
Keep - Charger, Challenger, Viper, Dakota, Avenger,Minivan (Although I think the Minivan could be tossed in favor of the Town & Country)
Trash - Durango, Caliber, Magnum (even though I love that car)
Redesign - Avenger - SRT option with turbo and AWD option.
Redesign - Dakota - offer the Hemi or a 3.0L diesel option - would boost sales and improve MPG
Redesign - Ram - remove the low end V8 option - offer the 6.1L V8 Hemi to offset the Dakota Hemi option
Concept - 2dr or 2dr + 2 coupe with a 300hp 4cyl or v6 be it turbo or N/A - RWD (the Dodge Stealth was good, but RWD should be standard)
Concept - 2dr roadster - Demon concept
The truth is, the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep lineup overall isnt bad. They have a few models that simply overlap or undercut each other in a similar market. It seems the Big 3 are very similar in that. My cuts are based on what I view to be the way to move forward.
Record Breaker
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,513
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From: Warren MI. Home to Rams and Dakotas
RE: Five to seven models to be cut
ORIGINAL: Majin_Neon_00
Chrysler can go after Caddy and its not that hard. Look at Caddy in the 90's they where craptastic, their only good product since the sixties was the CTS and even that was just because it looks cool-ish. The engine is crap, their only good one is the V but even that looks like trashed *** when you really look at the inside of it.
Like I said we tried to go after caddy, but people are not willing to pay 40k for a chrysler. Look at the first pacificas, and the aspen. The aspen has been a dud since day one. Plus chrysler is too cheap to compete with caddy.
The magnum is going to be killed because besides the crossfire it is our lowest volume car. We sell less than a 1000 a month.
The magnum is going to be killed because besides the crossfire it is our lowest volume car. We sell less than a 1000 a month.
Rookie
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 94
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RE: Five to seven models to be cut
I've been saying this for some time:
Turn the Charger into a multi model line. Have a 'Polara' entry level, then a Monaco and Charger. They could share doors and rooflines but use different fascias etc. You get more variety without having so many platforms.
Ditch the Avenger. Dodge hasn't been competitive in the mid size market for decades.
Make the Dakota a Jeep pickup and sell Jeep at Chrysler stores
Make the Aspen a Jeep Wagoneer.
Turn the Charger into a multi model line. Have a 'Polara' entry level, then a Monaco and Charger. They could share doors and rooflines but use different fascias etc. You get more variety without having so many platforms.
Ditch the Avenger. Dodge hasn't been competitive in the mid size market for decades.
Make the Dakota a Jeep pickup and sell Jeep at Chrysler stores
Make the Aspen a Jeep Wagoneer.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,206
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From:
RE: Five to seven models to be cut
Actually; now that I think about it I wouldn't change a damn thing! All the changes and redesigns of lines ever couple of years is what's killing Chrysler.
But I do like the Aspen and Jeep Wagoneer idea.
But I do like the Aspen and Jeep Wagoneer idea.
Admin formally known as 94rt10ohio
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 9,025
Likes: 3
From: Curtice, OH
RE: Five to seven models to be cut
ORIGINAL: DevilsReject
The truth is, the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep lineup overall isnt bad. They have a few models that simply overlap or undercut each other in a similar market. It seems the Big 3 are very similar in that. My cuts are based on what I view to be the way to move forward.
The truth is, the Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep lineup overall isnt bad. They have a few models that simply overlap or undercut each other in a similar market. It seems the Big 3 are very similar in that. My cuts are based on what I view to be the way to move forward.
I also agree Jeep could be trimmed by a couple models.
Chrysler will never be looked at like a Caddy. They could even make the car the same, it is the tradition that puts the Caddy over the top. It would take a few generations to get that tradition to fade away.
Thread Starter
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Professional
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 106
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RE: Five to seven models to be cut
The fact is Cerberus is Cutting five to seven models regardless of weither we like it or not. And i believe that the 300C stole sales from the CTS when it came out.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,206
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From:
RE: Five to seven models to be cut
ORIGINAL: Majin_Neon_00
The fact is Cerberus is Cutting five to seven models regardless of weither we like it or not. And i believe that the 300C stole sales from the CTS when it came out.
The fact is Cerberus is Cutting five to seven models regardless of weither we like it or not. And i believe that the 300C stole sales from the CTS when it came out.
Record Breaker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,233
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From: DFW, Texas
RE: Five to seven models to be cut
whoever was responsible for replacing the Neon with the Caliber should be bitch-slapped to begin with. If your going to "replace" a vehicle with another, try starting with something similarly sized... the Caliber is basically a mini-ute, with the look and the matching gas mileage you would expect from a brick. I have driven a couple and was not impressed. I still prefer the neon for the compact group. And with the poor sales of the Caliber the public reflects this also. So another car equal to the neon needs to happen.
The PT cruiser was originally on the neon platform so it was taking some of the small car sales from the neon. The Pacifica should have been the PT Cruiser, it would have been more usefully sized and the visual impact of design would have been more dramatic. The Pacifica is pretty much like any other rolling blob of steal calling its self a cross-breed(I mean cross-over... lol).
Although the Durango doesnt look as good as the last body style, it is far more functional and a bit larger, alsoavailable with a big motor... kinda hard to argue about that, give it a bit of a restyle and it will be fine.
The Dakota is ugly, in fact the ugly stick was broken on this one... just think of the poor sap over at Mitsubishi who thought it would be a good time to come out with a truck again, much less base it upon the Dakota... I would think he would be soooo fired by now!
The Magnum restyle doesnt help it, so now it looks like a Charger wagon...there is just no help for it now.
The Grand Cherokee has been outdated for too long... it has been falling behind for years and it just wasnt apparent how much till the Commander was made. The GC should have been the Commander, after all all SUV's have grown over the last 10+ years but yet the GC never did. Not that Jeep needs to try to compete on a luxury SUV level... since its a Jeep? Just build better go-anywhere's and Jeep will stay on top. The compass is useless in this capacity so it doesnt belong. The old Liberty should have been as small as a jeep needs to be other than a bare bones CJ. The larger sized Wrangler surely doesnt make it any better for the trail or for off-roading. It only follows the growing trend of larger SUV's, hence the now 4-dr version. That if was available with a HEMI, would have replaced my current '04 RAM cuz they look AWESOME!!!
As for trying to compete with Cadillac or Buick... Chrylser should have capitolized on the continued success of the 300 platform. The 300 was the closest in style, comfort and luxury that Chrylser has been to anyone since the New Yorker from the early 90's. They had all the red leather and **** carpet any pimp would die for back then, it just wasnt stylish enough on the outside. Yeh I know there have been LHS's, Concorde's, 300M's and such since then but they looked pretty cheap on the inside with lots of cheap plastic and not real eye-catchers on the out.
Chrysler used to be the one that held a body style for at least 10 years before even thinking of modifying it. Recently we have seen them flip to send a vehicle to the extinct file in less than 5. And they wonder how come they loose so much money. They spend millions of dollars building cars that make no sense to begin with, either trying to replace a vehicle in a segment or by trying to make a new one. And if they kill off a popular and still useful model by doing so, then they only continue to perpetuate failure.
I agree that the fault of this lies with the guys at the top, getting paid the huge money to manage and/or clean up the previous mess of the one before only to screw things up worse. And these guys are bleading the company for tens of millions of dollars that should be placed into product research and development.
The PT cruiser was originally on the neon platform so it was taking some of the small car sales from the neon. The Pacifica should have been the PT Cruiser, it would have been more usefully sized and the visual impact of design would have been more dramatic. The Pacifica is pretty much like any other rolling blob of steal calling its self a cross-breed(I mean cross-over... lol).
Although the Durango doesnt look as good as the last body style, it is far more functional and a bit larger, alsoavailable with a big motor... kinda hard to argue about that, give it a bit of a restyle and it will be fine.
The Dakota is ugly, in fact the ugly stick was broken on this one... just think of the poor sap over at Mitsubishi who thought it would be a good time to come out with a truck again, much less base it upon the Dakota... I would think he would be soooo fired by now!
The Magnum restyle doesnt help it, so now it looks like a Charger wagon...there is just no help for it now.
The Grand Cherokee has been outdated for too long... it has been falling behind for years and it just wasnt apparent how much till the Commander was made. The GC should have been the Commander, after all all SUV's have grown over the last 10+ years but yet the GC never did. Not that Jeep needs to try to compete on a luxury SUV level... since its a Jeep? Just build better go-anywhere's and Jeep will stay on top. The compass is useless in this capacity so it doesnt belong. The old Liberty should have been as small as a jeep needs to be other than a bare bones CJ. The larger sized Wrangler surely doesnt make it any better for the trail or for off-roading. It only follows the growing trend of larger SUV's, hence the now 4-dr version. That if was available with a HEMI, would have replaced my current '04 RAM cuz they look AWESOME!!!
As for trying to compete with Cadillac or Buick... Chrylser should have capitolized on the continued success of the 300 platform. The 300 was the closest in style, comfort and luxury that Chrylser has been to anyone since the New Yorker from the early 90's. They had all the red leather and **** carpet any pimp would die for back then, it just wasnt stylish enough on the outside. Yeh I know there have been LHS's, Concorde's, 300M's and such since then but they looked pretty cheap on the inside with lots of cheap plastic and not real eye-catchers on the out.
Chrysler used to be the one that held a body style for at least 10 years before even thinking of modifying it. Recently we have seen them flip to send a vehicle to the extinct file in less than 5. And they wonder how come they loose so much money. They spend millions of dollars building cars that make no sense to begin with, either trying to replace a vehicle in a segment or by trying to make a new one. And if they kill off a popular and still useful model by doing so, then they only continue to perpetuate failure.
I agree that the fault of this lies with the guys at the top, getting paid the huge money to manage and/or clean up the previous mess of the one before only to screw things up worse. And these guys are bleading the company for tens of millions of dollars that should be placed into product research and development.
Rookie
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 94
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RE: Five to seven models to be cut
If Dodgeforum.com is any indication, ditching the Neon was a HUGE mistake.
I've theorized before that Daimler's whole idea was to turn Dodge into a 'truck' division. That's why they had the Magnum and only relented when Dealers complained about the lack of a large sedan to sell. Similarly, the Caliber is a 'truck' under NHTSA EPA CAFE rules.
Then you have the Caravan - also a 'truck.'
One thing this thread seems to miss: the problem isn't necessarily with 'badge engineering' - that really doesn't cost much, and it's a relatively easy way to make dealers happy.
The true problem for Cerberus is PLATFORM proliferation. I
I've theorized before that Daimler's whole idea was to turn Dodge into a 'truck' division. That's why they had the Magnum and only relented when Dealers complained about the lack of a large sedan to sell. Similarly, the Caliber is a 'truck' under NHTSA EPA CAFE rules.
Then you have the Caravan - also a 'truck.'
One thing this thread seems to miss: the problem isn't necessarily with 'badge engineering' - that really doesn't cost much, and it's a relatively easy way to make dealers happy.
The true problem for Cerberus is PLATFORM proliferation. I
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,206
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RE: Five to seven models to be cut
Kingelvis - Alot of people like the Caliber, and I am one of them. It's far from a truck. It depends on what state you live in, or your insurance company on what category it's listed. Some place it may list it as a truck, but they would have to be nuts to list it as such. Its no different than any other hatchback in history, but that's the problem; you people are pissed that the damn Neon was replaced by a hatchback. Oh, and heaven forbid that the Caliber SRT-4 has a fewseconds less hp; than the damnNeon.To me; the fuss you people make about this car is pretty petty. Just because they finally quit making that ugly Neon. I thinkthe Caliber ispretty stylish, and theCRD tranny is awesome.