Speedguy,

When I referred to "Matt's tests" I meant the following.

http://foohbar.com/magnum.cfm

Pretty good reading in my opinion. As for as stuff hitting the fan, I guess that has already passed and that is a good thing. This thread is like a train wreck, I just can't turn away as much as I want to.

 

One thing Ty mentioned about the intake test conducted at ******** -- I f you pay attention to the testing protocol you'll see that the Volant intake was given a more than ample time to 'burn in' to the computer, and was tested in this state. Further, Volant was contacted about this and they had no problems with the testing protocol, stating that what was done was plenty to get the computer acclimated to the new inputs. FWIW Volant is the only manufacturer who has responded to the test and they are actively trying to figure out the reason for the performance of their product.

My tests were run back when, to all intents and purposes, the Typhoon was the only option on the market. Now we have more than one product out there and the differences have been found to be minimal for a large variety of reasons. Its about looks and sound unless proven otherwise. A free-flowing exhaust added into the mix is possibly going to help and another round of tests with a Zoomers catback on run in late July is likely.

As for the Phantom intake... The Intake Face-Off was the most widely publicized forum event ever, pretty much. People on four separate forums I frequent were sitting out the purchase of an intake waiting to hear the results. It was publicly planned months in advance, the testing protocol was public, the list of intakes to be tested was wide open to all comers. You didn't even have to donate one... all intakes were purchased out of a community fund many -- myself included -- donated to. I hate to say it but popping up out of nowhere ONE day after the test and pooh-poohing it and pushing your own competing product just doesn't win you any points. You had a golden chance to show off your product and have it tested by a completely brand-agnostic shop, observed closely by a couple of dozen Magnum owners. You would have been a welcome participant.

Talk to CoolVanilla and see if there's a place for you in the followup test. He's got the credibility you need and a lot of Magnum owners are watching from a lot more places than this. If you want to prove yourself put your product up to an independent test.

 

I am often misunderstood in print I tend to cover too much ground. Can’t help myself.

I think the test was and is great. It proved the points/information made on this thread quite some time ago. Yes you will need a computer to really see any serious notable gains. Another well noted point was the use of the o2 sensor as a point of gain that would push a bit of performance gain. Still this all seems to be new news and posted as if it was never mentioned. Other people than myself had mentioned this as well so no it’s not a “ooh look at what I can do�. I have alot of experience when messing with gains such as these and unfortunately the computer format is the main reasons for the lack of gain in this case.

No matter what you do the intake that houses the highest restriction (slowest point) under the hood will be warmer. The filter is the point of the greatest resistance on an intake. The other issue is the blowby yes it is plumbed into the intake. You should measure the temp of the air coming out of that unit.

The point of the Phantom intake was to use the cars stock architecture and set up access to the coolest air within reason. Although flow is the king the temp is a good 30% of the mix. The only reason we did not use a 4� pipe was the hole was too small. We actually have a prototype-insulating sleeve and this will make a much bigger difference once the engine is set up to actually use it.

There is still another 3 systems not used on this car and again all are better than what is offered by the larger intake companies. I will be making one of them in the near future I even discussed the concept with mike or another one of the people who I had talked to.


Once again the computer has set values and in the end they rule.

A “good’ reprogram with a ideal combo of parts will show a huge difference between a warm air intake and a cold air intake. Look at serious racecars and they plumb their intake outside the engine bay with no filter. You don’t see them using a K&N typhoon “kit�, or Volant.


Volant makes a nice clean unit that does the best they can to offer the best of all worlds I sell some of there intakes. They are great for what they are. They are also smog legal and that does count for the majority of the market. Even though I personally don’t push many K&N “kits� there filter is still the Best in my mind.

Ok I have to say this because I don’t like to lie by omission either. Covering your intake box and pipe very liberally with insulating material…(the best material is my secret)…. will provide huge temp differences. Still no computer mod and you will have a very mild gain.


The other limitation is filter size; the hemi can use a much bigger filter than offered with any of the kits. The other kits are stuck with limited space, smaller filter. We can use a much larger filter to increase flow even further because we have less of a space restriction. What a plan its almost like Phantom planed it that way.

Unfair to compare but I am all game and it is free. If you share the preferred color or style I can send a very nice looking intake because the difference in this current test cars state will be just that, how they look. I will contact vanilla and see if he is interested but I have a car to test with and I will be putting a modified computer in it and test with the stock intake and then again with the computer mod and the Phantom.

Actually we are also giving away a Phantom intake and free dyno run to any Hemi Dodge Charger in the Fresno area.

If the charger owner wants we will pay half the charge for many other mods like the comp cam and other items. Yes with a free dyno as well.



To My credit?? Well I guess it may seem this is a concern but really I don’t really care if people don’t like me or think I’m full of it. In the end the facts I share and use to make more hp always speak volumes. Dp or Phantom is not a threat to other intakes or products because they are actual performance units sold for performance reasons not with commercial gain as a primary concern. Yes and our product are usually more expensive.

I guess the best way to say it is I don’t do the Jones’!


Ty

 

if you wrap the tube, after driveing and park then get back in to drive again the tube will warm up and the wrap will hold the heat in. and at the track that will hurt more than help. better to leve the tube bare. it will cool faster with out wrap from the air moveing threw it. as for the all the cool air 3 tenths b.s. nos makes a system that cools faster and gains seconds. no reason to fight about some thing the weather changes every day (cold air). whith out being at the track you cant fill a few tenths. so if you want big horse power then spend the money.[sm=headbang.gif]

 

and the saga continues...isn't this fun stuff?

Since I've been on the road for several weeks and really haven't been paying attention to the forums, I was impressed to see all this hoo-ha continuing in here...

Since I had (note past tense) one of Ty's intakes on my Black RT I feel somewhat qaulified to comment on the differences between it and the K&N 'Aircharger' product.

K&N guarantees in writing, 21 hp when using the Aircharger. Very Impressive. I felt a serious difference from the moment I stepped on the gas. Even with all the protestations to the contrary, I've never felt comfortable wit hthe idea of having the filter down below the headlight, out of sight. I never drove through really deep water with it on, and what rain I did run thru I figure didn't get anything important wet, it's just my own twitchies about putting something important where I couldn't get to it real easy.

My conclusions after putting 3K+ highway miles on the K&N after putting 2K+ miles on Ty's product would be that the K&N gives more bang for the buck, and satisfies my comfort factor about being able to see the filter easily. The Aircharger is cheaper too. Sorry Ty.

One of these pairs of tracks was made by a Magnum RT, the other was from a a full tilt 428+.030+stroked+++ 64 Ford Galaxie...



and somewhere I seem to have run across the following image because of course, none of us would do anything so foolish, right?



Currently in Vancouver, BC for a few more days, then heading back to Colorado Springs for another weeks or so...

Mike

 

Thanks Mike...finally a straight up opinion based on real world testing. I was leaning toward the K&N Aircharger before, but now I have pretty much decided to go with the Aircharger.
Question..I live in California...smog BS here...I believe that the Aircharger is NOT smog legal. My question is couldn't I just keep the OEM set up and swap it out in two years when I need to smog her? Or is there other factors that would make this a big undertaking?
Thanks again!
Ps. I like the tracks, and the 125 speedo shot. My other "weekend bomber" is a '66 Galaxie fast back, which I threw in a 460 .30 over. Forged Pistons, new Comp cam, Elelbrock high rise duel plane intake, Speed Demon Carb, all the goodies, the thing is a frickin beast
Happy driving
Brian

 

The Aircharger is not CARB'd. I asked K&N about this and they told me that it will be within 6-8 months. It is just going thru the buraucracy now and 6-8 months is what it takes. If you fill in your warranty card and send it in they will send you a sticker when the approval comes thru. Also the uninstall/reinstall is easy EXCEPT for the air sensor. That is a pain. I had to cut mine out of the stock housing.

Its not 2 years to smog the Magnum... since its a new car its FIVE :-)

 

No need to be sorry mike. I never sold the phantom intake as a intake meant for 9-5 drivers. We had tested the intake in the winter on Phantoms car and yes in snow rain through puddles and he had a bit of "lift" (jump) and still no problem. If you park in deep enough water you could ingest water and yes it could cause damage.


Wow 21HP..at the wheels??? Guaranteed or what? Will they pay for the 60.00 for the dyno to prove they are lying? I dare you to dyno test it mike. What they will push is that it worked for them at the rpm they show on their dyno run. Be very careful about comparisons and independent dyno runs. I could get my dyno run to say 100hp gain if I wanted. I believe in the test being done by vanilla in sac, his test style is the best way to go.

Ok I will share again.

I could care less how many of these kits we sell we are not competing with regular 9-5 intakes meant for basic public use. We are only offering the phantom line of intakes yes more coming because they are performance oriented.

Fact 1 flow is the biggest gain on an intake thus many companies open up the filter area and use a cone filter to drastically increase the flow. . Yes this is what you feel Mike.

Fact # 2 temp is the second biggest effect when at a reasonable temp. When the air becomes too hot then temperature can easily be the #1 intake factor.

So when testing the difference of the filters you need to take into the equation is the temperature of your car as it sits either in traffic or at a track. Where is most of the heat??? Well the heat primarily comes from your engine and it is definitely trapped in there. So is the warm air intake. In extreme cases Cadillac owners have done tests on the caddy page and found there was an actual loss from this type of intake. That’s right there own independent tests and the warm air intake in there case lost them hp. Same with the corvette and many other vehicles.

The magnum needs a 4� intake kit . Ill let you know how it goes.

In the case of the Magnum Rt, 300c, or Charger you will find as people actually open up they’re engines that the gains you receive from a warm air intake are outright lame compared to a real cold air intake. Soon people will copy the cold air intake idea used by Phantom and then it will be a “cool� idea. Most will use ducting because it is cheaper. Volant has used the same premise on some of there intake until customers had fear issues with location so they just have a tube reaching down to mimic as much of a real cold air intake as they can. They are in the business of selling to the average Joe so they have to build appropriately making sure they take into account the “fears� they may have.
Large “big rigs� lol use the same premise as well. They don’t have a big filter opened in the engine bay. Nor do race cars or any serious performance vehicle designed for wining a race. The car manufactures are hampered with tones of restrictions and the filter location is one of the results.

Notice the lid on the Volant intakes?? Trying to keep out the heat Notice the hole to gain air from the front grill area?? Trying to offset the location as much as possible.. and I have to say if I was buying a 9-5 intake I would buy a Volant. Much wiser design…

All that Phantom uses K&N filters and it can use a bigger filter than the others because it has room to.


Mike what part of BC??

 

It's silly to think you're going to get 21 horsepower by changing the air cleaner. Even if you give it a fancy name like Cold Air Intake, I find it very hard to believe you could get that much improvement unless the factory air cleaner had a filter that was 1 square inch.

We all want more power, and who doesn't want to be able to easily do it in the garage with common hand tools? But I just find it very hard to believe that there's 21 hp in an air cleaner change.

 

I just joined this party and didn't read the entire 20 pages, so my apologies if I missed something, but looking at the photos of the CAI system on page one, if that's what we're talking about here, here's my opinion:

That metal tube running in front of the radiator is going to raise the temp via heat soak more than any supposed reduction in temp by sticking the filter way down low (where it will get soaked the first time you drive it in the rain). Besides, the stock airbox already picks up air from just a few inches above this location and is protected by a splash guard.

As far as improving airflow, the intake tube only needs to be as large as the bore of the throttle body, so anything larger than the stock tube is just going to be a reduction in air velocity.

NOW I WOULD LIKE TO STAND UP AND BOLDLY PROCLAIM: NO ONE HAS MADE A BETTER CAI THAN THE FACTORY BOX AS OF YET - THERE'S SIMPLY NOTHING WRONG WITH IT! QUIT WASTING YOUR MONEY! YOU CAN STICK YOUR ARM THROUGH THE WHOLE THING, AND IT ALREADY GRABS AIR FROM OUTSIDE THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT! IF YOU REALLY WANT TO GET "COOLER" AIR, CUT A HOLE IN THE FRONT OF THE STOCK AIRBOX AND RUN A PIECE OF 3" PVC UP TO THE AREA BEHIND THE GRILLE, THEN WRAP THE INTAKE TUBE WITH SOME INSULATION. DONE! COST: A FEW BUCKS! THANK YOU AND GOODNIGHT![:'(]

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