HVAC issues
#1
06-21-2020, 05:55 PM
HVAC issues
my Durango is an 01 SLT "+" (whatever that means?) 4wd with a 360 and 265k miles. I have had it for like 7 years now, body still great on it, mechanically and suspension it has been totally overhauled.
It has F&R heat/AC.
A few years ago it had computer issues related to fuel injector drivers. has had an engine and trans overhaul in between, and ever since I got it running from that, I have been fighting the damn HVAC.
When I went to recharge the AC, upon replacing the engine (I had had the whole AC system down, condenser out of the truck for room to freely swing the engine in and out) Previous to this, I had replaced the compressor with a brand new (not reman) one, the condenser (from a deer strike), the filter/dryer, that I can remember. Before I had the engine out (that project dragged on forever, definitely too long, nother story) but after the compressor, dryer and condenser were changed (2 separate repairs there) not done at same time) that AC blew COLD. I mean have to turn it way down on a 98* day, kind of cold.
but since the computer issue and the engine replacement, I have been fighting the AC and tired of hearing the wife b*tch about sweating to the leather..... its her truck and she loves it, besides the AC, hence the major suspension and drivetrain overhaul. I wanted to replace the truck when the engine went down but fixed everything instead, at her insistence.
since I got it running from the engine and trans swap, (last fall), I vacuumed it down to recharge it and initially I could not get the clutch to kick in for the compressor. I got a little bit of Freon in, not having a recovery machine with a pump to force the charge in at my disposal like my work has, I could only feed it what it would take. I just have a regular old school vacuum pump.
At this point one of the little LED's was blinking on the dash control, incessantly. Drives me nuts to this day. still have not been able to get that to stop. It gets better.
I came online and found out I had to do a "sweep test" of the rear HVAC doors to satisfy the computer and stop the flashing. I tried with 3 different scanners and could not access that test from any. so I went by the stealership and had someone there that I know, plug in the DRB. I am NOT buying a damn DRB, even though they are 2 systems outdated on the factory side, those things are still $3 grand WHEN they can be found. The dealer guy hadn't worked on this "old stuff" in a while and didn't remember the test that I was asking for, but a different "sweep test" that measured temp swing from cold setting to hot setting, there was something about 65*F. I don't remember if that was the "coldest" it could be ambient for the DRB to allow his test, or if it had to detect a 65*F variance between full cold and full hot, but it was not what I asked for.
Since conditions were not right to allow the test to be run, the DRB would not do it. But now, BOTH LED's, on the AC button AND the rear defrost button, have blinked together incessantly ever since.
One thing the DRB told me that my big dollar Snap on scanner wouldn't, was a code for either the mode door or the blend door in the rear HVAC. Clear the code and it came right back. If there are ANY codes in the system the DRB will abort any test underway and not allow it to happen.
so I went home, and over the winter I pulled the rear HVAC apart and found a broken door and a seized actuator. I replaced both doors with aftermarket aluminum ones (not from "Heater Treater" there is another company out there making them) and the bad actuator, verified they worked, and somewhere along the way I noticed the AC clutch was now coming on and "short cycling". (on-off-on-off-on-off-repeat) The clutch not actuating was my whole concern last fall when I was buttoning up the engine swap. so I was able to get some more Freon in, but *not quite* enough to get the AC to the pressures expected for a 91* day. but the AC worked now, decent, but not quite how well it used to work. and the LED's continue to flash on the control panel. I took it back to the stealership this spring, to try and run both the rear HVAC door sweep and the tech's temp sweep tests again to get the damn lights to quit blinking. but now I had 3 different codes in the system that again my $2600 brand new Snap on scanner, said were not there. and weren't there last Fall. one was for the ambient temp sensor shorted (feeds data for overhead console) another said the temp probe on the evaporator was shorted, and I forget what code #3 was. He cleared them and 2 codes went away, the code for the evaporator temp probe would not go away. The AC continued to work "OK but not quite as well as it had a few years ago". until last week, now it doesn't cool at all again.
I pulled the evap temp sensor (3 minutes to pull from beneath the dash) and yup, FLUKE meter says it's shorted out. but it worked sorta decent, since being told it was bad. for a while.
I went to find one, googled the number on the old sensor and it's discontinued, no longer available, and nobody has one collecting dust on a shelf. Anywhere. so yesterday I went junking, and to improve my odds of getting a "good" one I got 3 of them. My wife is at work with the Durango so I haven't had a chance to pop the replacement sensor in and try it. Hopefully tonight.
I have kissed this Durango's *** and it still will not cooperate with me on this AC issue. Anyone have any further ideas???? Since the AC did work "somewhat" even after I was told that this sensor was FUBAR, I cannot see it making the whole difference in giving me good AC again..... Can you?
2 more things, that I don't think pertains to this exact issue. but its related to the HVAC system (and it might be related to the issue at hand)) so I will say that when we got this Durango in 2013, I discovered that the resistor pigtail had been replaced, before I bought it. I have replaced the same pigtail myself, 2x since then, and 4-5 resistors among those. and somewhere within all of that, I did replace the blower motor/ even though the original one always worked, to the extent the blower motor resistor would allow it to.
and somewhere along the way, it quit directing air out the lower "HEAT" vents when directed to. At one time, I had the linkage on the driver side of the plenum apart and cleaned up the hardened white lube that was probably there since new and relubed it. The linkage moves as it should when the heater control is moved to the "heat on the Feet" position, but that round Rube Goldberg dial that the linkage is supposed to move, that in turn operates the mode doors in the bottom of the plenum, doesn't always move. Upon replacing that actuator (that seemed to work fine, and new actuator made no difference) that's when I cleaned out the old hardened grease and reapplied fresh lube,the "HEAT" mode worked for like a week after that. The **** on the linkage rod is intact, its like something in that area is "stripped". back then when I would lay under the dash and move the dial by hand it would blow out on front seat occupants' feet but that is dead again.I have tried a different control head and it didn't help the mode function. works fine "in your face" and the defrost functions.
I had heard somewhere along the way (back then) that parts for the linkage for the plenum modes were discontinued "back then" and that (somebody) suggested "upgrading" to the newer style airbox and such... as in next gen Durango HVAC plenum.... any news or credibility on that assessment? Anyone ever done this? Is that even doable? There are more 2004+ Durangos in the local yard than there ever were 01-03s.... yet there have always been (and still are) way more 1st gen Durangos on the road than the newer renditions.... HELP!!!!
It has F&R heat/AC.
A few years ago it had computer issues related to fuel injector drivers. has had an engine and trans overhaul in between, and ever since I got it running from that, I have been fighting the damn HVAC.
When I went to recharge the AC, upon replacing the engine (I had had the whole AC system down, condenser out of the truck for room to freely swing the engine in and out) Previous to this, I had replaced the compressor with a brand new (not reman) one, the condenser (from a deer strike), the filter/dryer, that I can remember. Before I had the engine out (that project dragged on forever, definitely too long, nother story) but after the compressor, dryer and condenser were changed (2 separate repairs there) not done at same time) that AC blew COLD. I mean have to turn it way down on a 98* day, kind of cold.
but since the computer issue and the engine replacement, I have been fighting the AC and tired of hearing the wife b*tch about sweating to the leather..... its her truck and she loves it, besides the AC, hence the major suspension and drivetrain overhaul. I wanted to replace the truck when the engine went down but fixed everything instead, at her insistence.
since I got it running from the engine and trans swap, (last fall), I vacuumed it down to recharge it and initially I could not get the clutch to kick in for the compressor. I got a little bit of Freon in, not having a recovery machine with a pump to force the charge in at my disposal like my work has, I could only feed it what it would take. I just have a regular old school vacuum pump.
At this point one of the little LED's was blinking on the dash control, incessantly. Drives me nuts to this day. still have not been able to get that to stop. It gets better.
I came online and found out I had to do a "sweep test" of the rear HVAC doors to satisfy the computer and stop the flashing. I tried with 3 different scanners and could not access that test from any. so I went by the stealership and had someone there that I know, plug in the DRB. I am NOT buying a damn DRB, even though they are 2 systems outdated on the factory side, those things are still $3 grand WHEN they can be found. The dealer guy hadn't worked on this "old stuff" in a while and didn't remember the test that I was asking for, but a different "sweep test" that measured temp swing from cold setting to hot setting, there was something about 65*F. I don't remember if that was the "coldest" it could be ambient for the DRB to allow his test, or if it had to detect a 65*F variance between full cold and full hot, but it was not what I asked for.
Since conditions were not right to allow the test to be run, the DRB would not do it. But now, BOTH LED's, on the AC button AND the rear defrost button, have blinked together incessantly ever since.
One thing the DRB told me that my big dollar Snap on scanner wouldn't, was a code for either the mode door or the blend door in the rear HVAC. Clear the code and it came right back. If there are ANY codes in the system the DRB will abort any test underway and not allow it to happen.
so I went home, and over the winter I pulled the rear HVAC apart and found a broken door and a seized actuator. I replaced both doors with aftermarket aluminum ones (not from "Heater Treater" there is another company out there making them) and the bad actuator, verified they worked, and somewhere along the way I noticed the AC clutch was now coming on and "short cycling". (on-off-on-off-on-off-repeat) The clutch not actuating was my whole concern last fall when I was buttoning up the engine swap. so I was able to get some more Freon in, but *not quite* enough to get the AC to the pressures expected for a 91* day. but the AC worked now, decent, but not quite how well it used to work. and the LED's continue to flash on the control panel. I took it back to the stealership this spring, to try and run both the rear HVAC door sweep and the tech's temp sweep tests again to get the damn lights to quit blinking. but now I had 3 different codes in the system that again my $2600 brand new Snap on scanner, said were not there. and weren't there last Fall. one was for the ambient temp sensor shorted (feeds data for overhead console) another said the temp probe on the evaporator was shorted, and I forget what code #3 was. He cleared them and 2 codes went away, the code for the evaporator temp probe would not go away. The AC continued to work "OK but not quite as well as it had a few years ago". until last week, now it doesn't cool at all again.
I pulled the evap temp sensor (3 minutes to pull from beneath the dash) and yup, FLUKE meter says it's shorted out. but it worked sorta decent, since being told it was bad. for a while.
I went to find one, googled the number on the old sensor and it's discontinued, no longer available, and nobody has one collecting dust on a shelf. Anywhere. so yesterday I went junking, and to improve my odds of getting a "good" one I got 3 of them. My wife is at work with the Durango so I haven't had a chance to pop the replacement sensor in and try it. Hopefully tonight.
I have kissed this Durango's *** and it still will not cooperate with me on this AC issue. Anyone have any further ideas???? Since the AC did work "somewhat" even after I was told that this sensor was FUBAR, I cannot see it making the whole difference in giving me good AC again..... Can you?
2 more things, that I don't think pertains to this exact issue. but its related to the HVAC system (and it might be related to the issue at hand)) so I will say that when we got this Durango in 2013, I discovered that the resistor pigtail had been replaced, before I bought it. I have replaced the same pigtail myself, 2x since then, and 4-5 resistors among those. and somewhere within all of that, I did replace the blower motor/ even though the original one always worked, to the extent the blower motor resistor would allow it to.
and somewhere along the way, it quit directing air out the lower "HEAT" vents when directed to. At one time, I had the linkage on the driver side of the plenum apart and cleaned up the hardened white lube that was probably there since new and relubed it. The linkage moves as it should when the heater control is moved to the "heat on the Feet" position, but that round Rube Goldberg dial that the linkage is supposed to move, that in turn operates the mode doors in the bottom of the plenum, doesn't always move. Upon replacing that actuator (that seemed to work fine, and new actuator made no difference) that's when I cleaned out the old hardened grease and reapplied fresh lube,the "HEAT" mode worked for like a week after that. The **** on the linkage rod is intact, its like something in that area is "stripped". back then when I would lay under the dash and move the dial by hand it would blow out on front seat occupants' feet but that is dead again.I have tried a different control head and it didn't help the mode function. works fine "in your face" and the defrost functions.
I had heard somewhere along the way (back then) that parts for the linkage for the plenum modes were discontinued "back then" and that (somebody) suggested "upgrading" to the newer style airbox and such... as in next gen Durango HVAC plenum.... any news or credibility on that assessment? Anyone ever done this? Is that even doable? There are more 2004+ Durangos in the local yard than there ever were 01-03s.... yet there have always been (and still are) way more 1st gen Durangos on the road than the newer renditions.... HELP!!!!
Last edited by volaredon; 06-21-2020 at 06:02 PM.
#2
06-22-2020, 01:22 PM
C'mon now . nobody? I'm drowning here, and people don't get why I prefer cars older than the mid 80s...... I hate this fancy electronic crap. I work on stuff newer than this at work and hate it. Give me electronic ignition, a vacuum advance distributor, and a carburetor with accessible adjustment screws along with adjustable timing.
#4
06-23-2020, 04:10 PM
#5
06-23-2020, 05:52 PM
Wow that's a lot of words and a lot of problem! I would have fist holes all over my house if that was my truck.
I think you should replace your evap temp sensor that you know for a fact is bad before getting too excited.
Only one thing can be fixed at a time. That sensor is next in line! Maybe it is responsible even if it doesn't make sense why.
Also you can likely test the resistance of your new temp probes with your fluke meter. If you find out how many ohms it is you can pull up a chart and find how much resistance it should register per a specific ambient air temp to verify the ones you got are good/accurate.
As far as the resistor wires, I used to have an '01 Dakota and replaced the resistor like 3 times within a year or two. Eventually ended up replacing the wires going to it with a beefier bundle per the suggestion of some dude at a junkyard. It never burned up another resistor since. Yours might have been tampered with because the previous owner did something similar.
Maybe your dash controls are going to bad? Maybe your computer (is there one for hvac?) is going bad. I don't know, depending on how cheap your junkyards are it might be worth guessing on some stuff to replace if it's cheap enough.
I really don't have any idea what's wrong with your system but hopefully I gave you some ideas or made your brain churn a little.
Good luck
I think you should replace your evap temp sensor that you know for a fact is bad before getting too excited.
Only one thing can be fixed at a time. That sensor is next in line! Maybe it is responsible even if it doesn't make sense why.
Also you can likely test the resistance of your new temp probes with your fluke meter. If you find out how many ohms it is you can pull up a chart and find how much resistance it should register per a specific ambient air temp to verify the ones you got are good/accurate.
As far as the resistor wires, I used to have an '01 Dakota and replaced the resistor like 3 times within a year or two. Eventually ended up replacing the wires going to it with a beefier bundle per the suggestion of some dude at a junkyard. It never burned up another resistor since. Yours might have been tampered with because the previous owner did something similar.
Maybe your dash controls are going to bad? Maybe your computer (is there one for hvac?) is going bad. I don't know, depending on how cheap your junkyards are it might be worth guessing on some stuff to replace if it's cheap enough.
I really don't have any idea what's wrong with your system but hopefully I gave you some ideas or made your brain churn a little.
Good luck
Last edited by Zingo; 06-23-2020 at 06:05 PM.
#6
06-23-2020, 08:04 PM
There is a junkyard computer in it, as I had a misfire issue that ultimately wound up being the injector driver in the computer having come loose from the board, and being a damn 01 I had to send the computer out to be reprogrammed to my truck's VIN programmed so that it would do more than start, run and quit within 15 seconds. Damn security crap. I do fully plan to replace that evaporator sensor when I get a few minutes with it, my wife and my work schedule doesn't jive right now.
i had to get a sensps from the junkyard since they are discontinued and nobody has any more lingering on the shelf any more. Not available aftermarket, nobody even shows any kind of a listing. Idk if one from something else might be able to be made to work. I do know that more Dodge vehicles used the same sensor. But it isn't available no matter what year make and model I use in the lookup.
i had to get a sensps from the junkyard since they are discontinued and nobody has any more lingering on the shelf any more. Not available aftermarket, nobody even shows any kind of a listing. Idk if one from something else might be able to be made to work. I do know that more Dodge vehicles used the same sensor. But it isn't available no matter what year make and model I use in the lookup.
#7
06-27-2020, 03:20 PM
ok.... I put the junkyard evap temp probe/ sensor in and put my Snap on scanner (Solus Edge with most recent current update from the Snap on truck) on, and my AC gauge set.
It is back to working but "not quite as well as I think it should"
With the blinking lights on the dash controller still blinking incessantly, any time the key is "ON", I guess the wife just did not realize the AC button was "off". It shows the AC as "active (and it is, evidenced by the compressor clutch working and the aux electric fan coming on) can tell when the scanner is plugged in. it shows AC as either "Active" or "off". I can tell cuz I can hear when the clutch activates (or not) w/o the scanner....
AC pressures were what Id expect for 90* outside. 40 on the low side, 240 high side when I hold the gas pedal to around 1800-2000 rpm. I don't have my thermometer for the dash vents home from work at the moment.... the scanner shows NO codes present. In any system. Engine, body, trans, HVAC. NO CODES. but it showed no codes before where the DRB at the dealer showed 2 codes.
My scanner showed no codes just prior to the DRB showing the 2 codes that it did. and I show no "functional test" or parameter on my scanner to do the sweep tests the DRB can run.
Now if I can just get rid of the damn incessant blinking lights without another trip to the stealership at this point Id call it "good". I mean I know its 20 years old and has over 260K miles on it, it is far from new.
The whole reason we keep it and I did everything I did to it instead of getting a different one is an allergy to car payments plus the fact that this Durango came from the South and is in fantastic shape. Not rotted out like most that have lived in my part of Illinois since they were new.... I'm hoping to drive this thing past 400k miles if the body and frame continue to cooperate.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE A WAY TO STOP THOSE DAMN LIGHTS FROM BLINKING short of a 3rd trip to the stealership to hook up their Dodge specific scanner?
It is back to working but "not quite as well as I think it should"
With the blinking lights on the dash controller still blinking incessantly, any time the key is "ON", I guess the wife just did not realize the AC button was "off". It shows the AC as "active (and it is, evidenced by the compressor clutch working and the aux electric fan coming on) can tell when the scanner is plugged in. it shows AC as either "Active" or "off". I can tell cuz I can hear when the clutch activates (or not) w/o the scanner....
AC pressures were what Id expect for 90* outside. 40 on the low side, 240 high side when I hold the gas pedal to around 1800-2000 rpm. I don't have my thermometer for the dash vents home from work at the moment.... the scanner shows NO codes present. In any system. Engine, body, trans, HVAC. NO CODES. but it showed no codes before where the DRB at the dealer showed 2 codes.
My scanner showed no codes just prior to the DRB showing the 2 codes that it did. and I show no "functional test" or parameter on my scanner to do the sweep tests the DRB can run.
Now if I can just get rid of the damn incessant blinking lights without another trip to the stealership at this point Id call it "good". I mean I know its 20 years old and has over 260K miles on it, it is far from new.
The whole reason we keep it and I did everything I did to it instead of getting a different one is an allergy to car payments plus the fact that this Durango came from the South and is in fantastic shape. Not rotted out like most that have lived in my part of Illinois since they were new.... I'm hoping to drive this thing past 400k miles if the body and frame continue to cooperate.
DOES ANYBODY HAVE A WAY TO STOP THOSE DAMN LIGHTS FROM BLINKING short of a 3rd trip to the stealership to hook up their Dodge specific scanner?
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#8
06-27-2020, 10:26 PM
Just not a problem I have ever heard of before. Quite likely you are going to need the Dodge-specific scan tool to convince it to play nice. If you can use the tool, and do it yourself, that would be cool, but, I would be concerned that none of the young techs at the dealer will have a clue about your 'Rango......
#9
06-27-2020, 11:41 PM
no, the guy I have been talking to is the "old guy" of the shop.... and has forgotten a bunch of what he used to know about them..... and is the only dealer of 3 in my general area that even still HAS a DRB... they are 2 diag systems past the DRB. I guess the newest and greatest has a "DRB simulator" according to another dealer tech-buddy but he has moved out of state and is too far away to simply "hit up after work" to see how well the new system's "DRB simulation mode" would work.
heck I needed a rim for an 06 Stratus at work the other day.... the parts guy at the dealer 2 blocks from work (where the "old guy who has forgotten much of what he used to know about that age vehicles" works, said that those wheels had been discontinued long ago and tehre were 2 left across the US on dealer shelves/ 1 in NH and 1 in (I think it was) Louisiana. this being 5 years newer than my rig.
(we wound up using the wheel from the spare on that Stratus and putting the bent rim in the trunk as the spare)
heck I needed a rim for an 06 Stratus at work the other day.... the parts guy at the dealer 2 blocks from work (where the "old guy who has forgotten much of what he used to know about that age vehicles" works, said that those wheels had been discontinued long ago and tehre were 2 left across the US on dealer shelves/ 1 in NH and 1 in (I think it was) Louisiana. this being 5 years newer than my rig.
(we wound up using the wheel from the spare on that Stratus and putting the bent rim in the trunk as the spare)
#10
06-27-2020, 11:47 PM
I think I will wind up going junking and pulling a whole HVAC plenum box (or 2) from junkyard vehicles and rebuilding 1 "known good" HVAC box to swap in eventually. That I know of the heater core/evaporator have never been out of mine. though I got a distress call from a young cousin a couple weeks ago while I was 300 miles from home at a wake/ my cousin has an 03 whose heater core has puked and soaked his feet on the way home from work one day..... my son wound up going to the roadside and jumpering the 2 heater hoses together, disconnecting and bypassing that heater core.... I get the dreaded feeling that I will get to find out "what makes anything under dash tick" on that Durango, I have never had that part of one apart yet
I did notice from what I could see in there by the evaporator when I had that temp senor out of mine that the fins look pretty dirty but I couldn't see much from that vantage point either.....
all I want is for it to work and for the damn LED's to stop blinking.....
I did notice from what I could see in there by the evaporator when I had that temp senor out of mine that the fins look pretty dirty but I couldn't see much from that vantage point either.....
all I want is for it to work and for the damn LED's to stop blinking.....