My Dak is an '02 quadcab 4.7, just turned 100K. I thought that when I finally paid her off in 2005 that I would enter the "Cinderella period," meaning no car payment and low maintenance. But actually it seems that everything that can go wrong is going wrong, except for the main power train. I do nearly all the work myself, but it's still draining me.

So I'm talking to my brother who is a certified master mechanic, and he talks about this thing called "designed obsolescence." Just as consumers often suspect, cars and car parts are designed (according to him mind you) to last past the warranty period, but not too much longer. He says it's simple economics. Firstly, it draws every last fraction of a penny out of the vehicle cost, and also it keeps people coming back for more. Any Big Three engineers out there who can speak to this?

So a few months ago, I'm shopping for a new vehicle for my wife, and I'm looking at the reliability data, and I see that Toyota's average quality gets excellent marks from the day they start selling a new design and years beyond, while Dodge starts out crappy and continues to be crappy. Take the Caravan for example. According to statistics, it sucked when it was first introduced, and it still sucks (we're talking quality.)

Does Toyota have a totally difference philosophy? If designed obsolescence is such a great economic idea, why is Chrysler going belly up and Toyota is now the best selling vehicle in America? It makes me ill actually.

Here's an example. My exhaust manifold recently separated from the block, and most of the studs were broken. If they used 10mm studs instead of 8mm, this problem would likely not occur nearly as often... and certainly not at 70K miles. This would add a dollar to the cost of the truck? And just maybe owners would feel better about their Dodge and buy a Dodge the next time around. Or the ball joints. Or the fuel pump. Or the window regulators. Or the rusting rear bumper.... ok, you get the idea.

I love the fit, function, feel, looks of my dakota. That's why I bought it. But it has been an uphill battle to feel the love, I tell ya.

 

i've heard about this
but i have no idea, i've been the warranty since i got the truck @87k
im at 117k and things wear out i guess, just did the balljoints on the right side only after a pothole raped them both and a hub bearing,
the drivers side is still tight as can be...

i've heard of cars/trucks going to 200k and never have major problems other than the normal wearable parts like pads/rotors...

 

yeah much of it depends on how you drive/ maintain your vehicle. i've had mine since 72k miles and now its sitting at 96k and haven't had hardly any trouble with it. sure companies want to sell more vehicles but nowadays the quality is so good that vehicles are designed to last longer and not have to be replaced as often so it is in a company's best interest to make something that will last a long time, since when it comes time to replace, they will probably be graced with a buyer that has had good luck with them in the past

basically, at the end of the day its a toss up, some trucks on the forum last over 200k miles while others last less than 50k

 

Over the recent years, with newer Dodge products, I've read of quite a few recurring problems on their products.
I can understand stuff happening on a vehicle with like 150,000 miles.
But ball joints failing under 60,000 miles, steering gear boxes giving out, axle problems, etc etc etc. It's extremely hard for me to believe this company is doing their job and designing a properly functioning vehicle for the working American person.

The popular American-car-lover thing to say in the face of those who post-up the recent Consumer Reports or other consumer satisfaction or car reliability where Asian cars are high ranked and American cars are lower ranked is that it's biased, unfair, or whatever.

Last spring, I needed a real cheap vehicle. I knew I would need to buy something from the 1980's. The only possibilities in my mind was Honda or Toyota.
In December, I bought my 2009 Corolla. Great gas mileage, decent power (considering what it is), BUT, there are problems with the fit of the plastic trim pieces.

Basically, for trucks being where Dodge makes most of its money, they really should put a LOT more money into making sure they will last longer. Hopefully they've already started to do this.

 

I find that Chrysler's products are a hit and miss item. My mom had a 95 jeep grand cherokee with 4.0 l6 in it we sold it with 190,000miles and rarely had a problem. Today it is still running with 208,000miles on the original engine,tranny and drive train. Now I know other people with same year jeeps same engine and everything and they have a problems right after another. My dads friend has a truck like mine same year and same engine about 6,000 more miles then mine and has never had any major problems but his 01 with 55,000 miles is always costing him money. Toyotas and honda are better but id much rather support one of the big 3 than to give money to foreign places.

 

the 4.7 exhaust manifold shearing off is a common problem. but you have to realize a few things. first of all, did you ever think that maybe they used 8mm studs because using 10mm studs would significantly weaken the cylinder head? Its better to replace a manifold than it is to replace a head. people ask for things like aluminum heads (which are easier to break) and car companies deliver. people ask for automatic transmissions that shift "smoother than a baby's bottom", when you have to realize, when the transmission is shifting so "smoothly", its actually slipping in between gears causing wear. to be honest, id rather have a bulletproof engine that weighs more and have an automatic transmission that feels like you're getting a kick in the a$$ every time it shifts and have it last forever.
I'm not an any way an engineer, but i know alot of times customers want things that arent necessarily good for them. i know the balljoint problem is inexcuseable since it is such a safety hazard, but who really wants to get under their truck and grease the balljoints with every oil change? Thats why these ball joints fail, because they're a sealed unit. The thing is, people want everything to just work forever, without having to do anything to it. but nobody realizes nothing in life works that way, let alone a car.
So here's what i say to people who say "american cars are junk, im gonna buy a honda or toyota". go right ahead, and when you find out its not all its cracked up to be when you discover the same problems you had with an american car, i hate to say i told you so.
bottom line... take care of your vehicle and it will take care of you. Ive never had any mechanical issues with my truck, and aside from things like the stupid blower motor resistor, its never given me any grief. But I always do all scheduled maintenance long before the factory recommends.

 

amen...

I'mso sick of people complaining about things going out on there cars/trucks. Its not going to last forever, it will require you to work on it, or throw money at it... its a huge piece of machinery that has TONS of moving parts and electronics, combined that with crappy USA Highways and roads, salt, water, tar, oil, gas, rocks, bugs, accidents, everything is going to require work..

Toyota has money meaning they have money to pay people to give good ratings, Toyota is just as much a pile of steaming crap just as much as every other car maker....

Go buy Toyota, go buy a Honda... but ill stick to my dodge truck.

and i agree with Wink... once you find out its a bigger or = piece of crap that you claim your Dakota is... im going to laugh in your face for believing what you see media wise... a master mechanic is not a god either.... unless he has owned every type of vehicle and drove them all the same way there is no way he can tell you something else is better then the other, and him saying parts lasting just enough time to get by the warranty he is probably right... if you had a company that sold high dollar computers, and you gave them 1 year warranty and within that one year about 80% of your customers come back wanting new computers or replacement parts, your not making money...

Companys are here to make money, to keep the economy going, to keep you a job, to keep this country running...

I Think we should call this generation the "Free hand outs, or GTFO" generation.

 

Yeah, honestly I think most of everyone's problem is maintenance. There's a ton of things I prefer on my Dodge Dakota, then I do with my sisters Toyota matrix, smoother acceleration, nicer pickup. Another thing to keep in mind is that allot of features on Toyota's are very basic, meaning they have less options to keep things *simple* with less chances to break. I know this is at least true with my sisters Matrix.


I love my truck and every time I fix/replace something I know it's less then a car payment would be.

The Dakota is still running strong and very reliably at 197k. I've only had it for 20k and the only issue I had that HAD to be replaced was a radiator.

 

amen to both user and wink's comments. And to add one more thing, there aren't many cars that actually bring a big profit for the car companies. They make their real money on parts and service, so if they did design cars/trucks to be bulletproof, they would either cost as much as a house, or all the manufacturers would go out of buisness.

 

our dually is going on 300,000+ miles..it's a 1977 GMC. To be honest, the body is sh&&, but the chassis and driveline are all running stong without major issues (454/TH475/Dana 70HD). And It's been a trailer hauler it's whole life (like i said in another thread, it weighs 4 tons, our racecar trailer weighed 4.5 and sometimes 5 tons). But the newer trucks on GMC side aren't built for work (5.5 foot bed is not a truck), that's why we switched to dodge. The Hemi is near 200,000 miles without issue. It's all about purpose and how it's treated.